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  • Flash Gordon Initial Discussion

    This thread will be for general discussion and comments on the initial release of Flash Gordon and Kingdoms of Mongo. Feel free as always to start threads on specific topics, this is just a starter and place for comments on errata from the other thread.

    Thanks!
    Clint Black
    Forum Admin & Rules Answer Guy
    Savage Worlds Brand Manager

  • #2
    Originally posted by BiblioTech View Post
    p.47: Basic Equipment - Flying Belt has no weight or cost indicated.
    That's because if you can get the #$@%$#% thing off the ceiling, it's yours.

    Comment


    • #3
      Why is Athletics based upon Agility instead of Strength? I feel like Strength should have at least one skill, and Athletics actually makes lots of sense, since it's used for climbing, swimming, and grappling (all of which require large amounts of Strength).
      I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

      Comment


      • Shoggoth
        Shoggoth commented
        Editing a comment
        I definitely agree with this. Strength needs a skill (it's already the least useful stat except in fantasy settings because most people use guns) and Athletics really ought to be Strength-based. Swimming, climbing, throwing, and especially grappling definitely require a good deal of strength.

      • Vinzent
        Vinzent commented
        Editing a comment
        I plan to house rule that it is under both attributes. If a player makes a brute, he can buy Athletics as a Strength skill. An agile character could by it as an Agility skill. It’s two different approaches to the same skill.

    • #4
      Expanding on Shoggoth's question in the other thread:

      Page 41, Defender Edge: "Any time a victim suffers damage within the Defender's Agility, the hero may take the intended damage herself by making an Agility roll at −2 (no penalty if she was on Hold in combat). ... If successful, resolve the attack against the Defender instead
      1. How many times per round can you use Defender?

      2. If the same attack damages multiple victims, can you take the damage for more than one of them?

      3. Can you use Defender while Aiming or using Full Defense? That is, does it count as moving?

      4. Do you actually move to intercept the damage?

      Basically, if you have high Vigor and Agility, and wear good armor, can you use Defender to pinball around the fight preventing all damage to your allies (until the enemies get lucky enough to overcome your high Toughness and free Soak rolls)?

      -j

      Comment


      • Talison
        Talison commented
        Editing a comment
        Also is that within Agility in inches?

      • jgreely
        jgreely commented
        Editing a comment
        If I were rewriting Defender (given my interpretation of it as a desperate leap to save a friend), I'd make it "Once per round, when an ally no more than Agility/2 inches away takes damage, the Defender may move in front of the intended victim and take the damage herself...", and append "This cancels Aim, Full Defense, and Hold actions, and the Defender is at -2 Parry until her next turn".

        -j

    • #5
      So I'm a little worried about the use of Taunt and Intimidate with the new Test of Will rules. I love the new outcomes but being able to just use Spirit leaves very little reason to take either of these skills as they are really only used for ToW. There's the String Willed edged but fundamentally these skills are now more of a tax especially as a character would need ranks in both skills to qualify. Essentially unless the skill is above you Spirit for I'm seeing little to no use for it currently. Really hoping I'm missing something and am wrong.

      Comment


      • Deskepticon
        Deskepticon commented
        Editing a comment
        I'm wondering if having the base ToW rolls affect just one target, but giving Taunt/Intimidation the benefit of Rebel Yell (from DL:R... i.e., affect multiple targets) will make them more attractive.

      • DMbobby
        DMbobby commented
        Editing a comment
        I love that

      • Devilstheatre
        Devilstheatre commented
        Editing a comment
        A simple way to fix that might be to reintroduce the Guts skill and use it as the defensive skill for Tests of Will and that way any ToW unskilled simply work for offensive and defensive as unskilled checks. That makes it easy for characters to defend by buying one skill instead of two and still specialize in how they want to use ToW's offensively if they want to design their characters to use them as such. This is especially easy to introduce for Deadlands Reloaded if you are wanting to introduce the ToW rules into that setting. Maybe house rule that Strength or Spirit can be used at a -2 when engaging in a ToW as appropriate if you want stick at least partly to the rules as written.

    • #6
      Originally posted by DMbobby View Post
      So I'm a little worried about the use of Taunt and Intimidate with the new Test of Will rules. .... There's the String Willed edged but fundamentally these skills are now more of a tax especially as a character would need ranks in both skills to qualify.
      There's also the new edge Moxie, which specifically affects Taunt. Stack with Strong Willed for a pile of scary put downs.
      The distinction also allows for characters with low Smarts / Spirit but high Taunt / Intimidation. The kinds of folks that can dish it out but can't take it.

      As one of my players responded when I described the changes, the skills also have a number of role play benefits.

      I'm still a bit concerned about it, Intimidation and Taunt may be going the way of Guts, but It's not hopeless yet.
      I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

      Comment


      • #7
        On page 46, what power source do Electro-Shields use, or does "Every hour spent recharging restores a point of Armor to the field" just mean "recharges one point per hour"?

        -j
        Last edited by jgreely; 01-10-2018, 03:35 PM.

        Comment


        • #8
          Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
          There's also the new edge Moxie, which specifically affects Taunt. Stack with Strong Willed for a pile of scary put downs.
          The distinction also allows for characters with low Smarts / Spirit but high Taunt / Intimidation. The kinds of folks that can dish it out but can't take it.

          As one of my players responded when I described the changes, the skills also have a number of role play benefits.

          I'm still a bit concerned about it, Intimidation and Taunt may be going the way of Guts, but It's not hopeless yet.
          Thanks I missed Moxie. I'm hoping there will be uses better explained as the issue of "it's for people who want it higher than their attribute" won't fix the issue of it lacking use until it's invested that high. I'll have to look at Moxie and someone else reminded me of the DL Noir interrogation rules which if brought into core would also help those skills matter beyond fringe cases.
          Last edited by DMbobby; 01-09-2018, 10:14 AM.

          Comment


          • #9
            Was a bit disjointed that it didn't have a good synopsis of Flash's adventures up to the start time of the setting. A lot of people may not have read the original strips and understand some things that are referenced in the book without this.

            Ming gets overthrown a few years after the star of the game's start. Why not include a Plot Point Campaign or release one or just a rough timeline of the events that occur for those not familiar with the old strips.

            What about time travel adventures? Some latter strips had Flash traveling in time and Flash also showed up in Prince Variant's comic and a few years back. (He did this also in Defenders of the Earth cartoon too many years earlier.) Could be useful to have a sidebar on time travel and dimensional travel for those that want some ideas on crossing things with other Savage Worlds games to know that this has occurred in the strip in the Kingdoms of Mongo book.

            See link for info on the Prince Valiant comic strip cross over.

            http://aprincenamedvaliant.blogspot....-of-cameo.html

            The maps of Mingo City and of Mongo look like the are CC3/CC3+ maps. Are they and if so is the FCW file available?

            Will Flash Gordon get a Fantasy Grounds version?

            One thing that wasn't covered i what powers a couple of hand weapons and other gear and how long the power supply lasts for them.

            Comment


            • #10
              Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
              Why is Athletics based upon Agility instead of Strength? I feel like Strength should have at least one skill, and Athletics actually makes lots of sense, since it's used for climbing, swimming, and grappling (all of which require large amounts of Strength).
              Definitely agree that Strength needs a skill in the old strips and in the New Adventure's cartoon raw strength is a major factor for getting out of tough situations that Flash and his companions end up in. The only thing Flash, Dale, and Zarkov have that is the advantage of being from Earth so they are a little stronger/agile than a similar inhabitant of Mongo. So i can see how some strength based stuff could appear too be more Agility in some cases if one forgets this Some tasks are using both Agility and Strength.

              Comment


              • #11
                Shouldn’t Dale have a D8 Strength, or was she really that weak back on Earth?

                Comment


                • #12
                  Trying to get my head around "Jumping" as part of Athletics. Jumping used to be movement (independent of Pace or Running). You could jump 1" horizontally, more if you moved at least 2", and yet further with a successful Strength roll. Does it still work exactly the same way in Flash Gordon, with the exception that one can make an Athletics roll instead of Strength for additional distance? Or must one always make an Athletics roll now, potentially, with distance being a modifier?

                  While I like the idea of the Athletics Skill as a Settings rule, I'm not sure if I'd like it in general. Hmm, then again, maybe it's good general Skill, but specific settings shouldn't use it (e.g., 50 Fathoms)?. I think it fits very well with Flash Gordon (and any pulp type setting), but I do agree with those above, who suggest it should be based on Strength, not Agility.

                  EDIT: After further review, I do like the Athletics Skill in general for most settings. I would be much happier if it did not include Jumping and Throwing (what was Strength based, and the other a combat Skill). As is, Athletics becomes a necessary skill for almost all characters to take. It just contains too many useful things to be stuck with a d4-2. You _need_ it for Jumping, and opposed grappling rolls (combat), on top of Throwing (combat), Climbing, Swimming and so on. Just too many things _not_ to have at least a d4 in. And with all those included abilities, yeah, Agility based does make more sense ... though Strength is becoming more of a dump stat, for all but those who engage in melee combat.
                  Last edited by Other Mike; 01-26-2018, 02:08 PM. Reason: Further Review.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    Hmm... I've been crunching some numbers and it looks like the Medium and Heavy bombs have almost exactly the same damage output. In fact, the Medium Bomb actually has a higher damage output than a Large Bomb (by a negligible amount, but still). Compared against both a 20 and 11 Toughness targets, both bombs have almost the exact same likelihoods to deal wounds: MB against a T20 target has an 78% to deal 1 wound, 60% to deal 2, 42% for 3, and 27% for 4, while a LB has a 76% to deal 1 wound, 58% to deal 2, 41% to deal 3, and a 27% to deal 4. This pattern is roughly repeated with a few other Toughness values I've input.

                    Not sure if it's too late, but it might be worth changing up the AP values or die types there.
                    My thoughts, musings, and general character adaptations on Savage Everything. Now featuring Suppressive Fire that actually works!

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      Was wondering since the game allows from you to play Earthlings and the Archetypes PDF mentions the Wold Space Council if any of the earth rocket ships are armed and what stats they have.

                      In the Flash Gordon the Greatest Adventure of All movie. Flash is working for the U.S State Department as a secret agent in addition to being a world famous athlete, etc. and meets Zarkov and Dale after fleeing Poland during the start of WWII. Zarkov's ship is armed and dialog between Flash and Zarkov reveals that Zarkov reveals that the U.S. Government has at least on of the weapon systems, which are given very specific names, and certain people like Flash are familiar with them as evident in the dialog and action despite that are classified.

                      Also Ming was working with Hitler in the movie and WWI was attempt to weaken up Earth for invasion. Ming was letting Germany have some advanced tech to tip the balance of power too.

                      The comic strip dealt with WWI differently than they way it unfolded in the real world when Flash, Dale and Zarkov, got back to Earth after overthrowing Ming, but that is another story

                      Also I don't like how the game just made any character that was about dwarf height a dwarf not all the dwarf sized inhabitants of Mongo are cave dwarf and one group is more closer to jungle pygmies.
                      Last edited by Jay_NOLA; 01-21-2018, 10:32 PM.

                      Comment


                      • #15
                        Originally posted by Other Mike View Post
                        Trying to get my head around "Jumping" as part of Athletics. Jumping used to be movement (independent of Pace or Running). You could jump 1" horizontally, more if you moved at least 2", and yet further with a successful Strength roll. Does it still work exactly the same way in Flash Gordon, with the exception that one can make an Athletics roll instead of Strength for additional distance? Or must one always make an Athletics roll now, potentially, with distance being a modifier?
                        Athletics would replace the Strength roll for additional distance.
                        Clint Black
                        Forum Admin & Rules Answer Guy
                        Savage Worlds Brand Manager

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