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Oopsie in the 50 Fathoms SWADE conversion

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  • Oopsie in the 50 Fathoms SWADE conversion

    Under the “Kraken” it list the “Vigorous” trait enjoyed by the Grael.

    Kraken
    “Aquatic: Cannot drown, may speak, hear, and move full Pace when swimming.
    „ Dehydration: Kraken must immerse themselves in water (salt or fresh) at least one hour out of every 24. Those who don’t are automatically Fatigued each day until they are Incapacitated. The day after that, they perish. Each hour spent recovering in sea water removes a level of Fatigue suffered from Dehydration.
    „ Magical Affinity: Kraken with Arcane Background have an additional 10 Power Points. Those without may take two other Edges instead.
    „ Outsider (Minor): Kraken are strange and mysterious beings even among the people of Caribdus. They subtract 2 from Persu asion rolls when dealing with other races.
    „ Vigorous: Grael start with a d6 in Vigor instead of a d4, increasing its maximum to d12 +1.”

  • #2
    It looks like this error is still in the document:
    https://www.peginc.com/store/50-fath...ion-pdf-swade/

    Comment


    • #3
      Also the Magical Affinity Feature is quite problematic since it encourages exactly NOT to take a Arcane Background for double value. I have to admit I'm also a little disappointed that the SWADE race creation rules weren't applied with this update.

      Atani: 2-3 points (depending if you count Glider as 1 or 2 point value)
      Doreen: 1-2 points (depending if you count Coup as 1 or 2 point value)
      Grael: 2-3 points (depending if you count Blubber as 2 or 3 point value)
      Kehena: 0 points
      Kraken with AB: 1 point (ignoring Vigorous)
      Kraken without AB: 3 points (ignoring Vigorous)
      Red-Men: -1 point
      Scurillians: 1 point (if you count Keen Mind as 2 point value)

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by chad vader View Post
        Also the Magical Affinity Feature is quite problematic since it encourages exactly NOT to take a Arcane Background for double value. I have to admit I'm also a little disappointed that the SWADE race creation rules weren't applied with this update.

        Atani: 2-3 points (depending if you count Glider as 1 or 2 point value)
        Doreen: 1-2 points (depending if you count Coup as 1 or 2 point value)
        Grael: 2-3 points (depending if you count Blubber as 2 or 3 point value)
        Kehena: 0 points
        Kraken with AB: 1 point (ignoring Vigorous)
        Kraken without AB: 3 points (ignoring Vigorous)
        Red-Men: -1 point
        Scurillians: 1 point (if you count Keen Mind as 2 point value)
        How were the SWADE creation rules not applied?

        Here's how the races breakdown (in my estimate).

        Atani
        Agile (+2)
        Athletic (+1)
        Gliders (+1)
        Weak (-2)
        TOTAL +2

        Doreen
        Coup (+1)
        Racial Enemy (-1)
        Semi-aquatic (+1)
        TOTAL +1

        Grael
        All Thumbs (-1)
        Big (-2)
        Blubber (+2)*
        Dumb (-3)
        Semi-Aquatic (+1)
        Size +1 (+1)
        Slow (-2)
        Strong (+4)
        Vigorous (+2)
        TOTAL +2
        * Assuming the +4 to resist Fatigue is only from cold.



        Kehana
        Aquatic (+2)
        Bite/Claws (+3)
        Dehydration (+1)*
        Habit (-1)
        Racial Enemy (-1)
        TOTAL +2
        * Although modeled off of Dependancy (-2), this ability is cheapened by being in a setting dominated with water. On a similar note, Aquatic may be considered MORE valuable, but I think the numbers are fine considering the Bite/Claw combination is mechanical redundant and worth closer to +2.



        Kraken
        Aquatic (+2)
        Dehydration (-1)
        Magical Affinity (+4)*
        Outsider (-1)
        Vigorous (+2)**
        TOTAL +6
        * Note that this ability provides 10 ADDITIONAL Power Points (two Edges worth). Personally, I think this is excessive; I'd scale it back to +5 PP or one additional Edge.
        ** It may be that this entry is a mistake, making the race balance out at +4. Then again, the original setting wasn't balanced either.


        Red-Men
        All Thumbs (-1)
        Clueless (-2)
        Dumb (-3)
        Fighters (+2)
        Outsider (-1)
        Strong (+2)
        Vigorous (+2)
        TOTAL -1

        Scurillians
        Claws (+3)
        Dehydration (-1)
        Keen Mind (+2)
        Mean (-1)
        Odd Shape (-2)
        Stubborn (-1)
        Shell (+2)
        TOTAL +2
        Last edited by Deskepticon; 07-15-2021, 03:40 AM.

        Comment


        • Deskepticon
          Deskepticon commented
          Editing a comment
          In addition to implementing the bullet comments on Grael and Kraken, I'd also add the following abilities:

          Doreen
          Sea Hunter (+1): Doreen are skilled aquatic hunters, adding +2 to Stealth when fully immersed in large bodies of water.

          Red-Men
          Nerves of Steel (+2): Half Ugaks are accustomed to pain and learn to ignore it. They receive this Edge for free.


          This should bring all the races to roughly +2.

      • #5
        Originally posted by Deskepticon View Post
        How were the SWADE creation rules not applied?
        Originally posted by SWADE-Core
        Our races are designed with the following rules:
        • Races and cultures begin with 2 points of Positive Racial Abilities. Additional positive abilities must be countered with an equal value of negative ones. A +2 ability, for example, may be countered by a single −2 ability or two −1 abilities.
        Atani are fine. Grael are probably a little more powerfull with +4 vs. any source of fatigue. There is no restriction do cold mentioned, but to interpret the secondary effect of Blubber as cold environmental resistance can balance the Grael out.

        Your resoning with Dehydration in the 50F setting also makes sense. That balances out the Scurillian but the Kehena ends still only at a +1 total since Bite/Claw is only worth +2 (compare with Rakashans). Maybe add Low Light Vision for the deep dwellers?

        Indeed I miscalculated the power points with +10 / per edge. Kraken Vigorous looks to me like an obvious a c/p error. Reducing Magical Affinity to 5 pp / one edge should balance the Kraken.

        For Red Men I would additionaly cut the Notice penalty from Clueless (+1). Nerves of Steel makes sense. I would also offer Berserk or Brute as an alternative that reflect physical prowess and savagery.

        Comment


        • #6
          Ah, ha! I see, you meant the races weren't all balanced at +2. I misunderstood. My bad!

          Originally posted by chad vader View Post
          Grael are probably a little more powerfull with +4 vs. any source of fatigue. There is no restriction do cold mentioned, but to interpret the secondary effect of Blubber as cold environmental resistance can balance the Grael out.
          I think it was just an oversight by whoever wrote the conversion. In the original writeup, grael were resistant to cold but also less resistant to heat. Seems only charitable to assume the +4 only applies to cold-based Fatigue.

          Your resoning with Dehydration in the 50F setting also makes sense. That balances out the Scurillian but the Kehena ends still only at a +1 total since Bite/Claw is only worth +2 (compare with Rakashans). Maybe add Low Light Vision for the deep dwellers?
          I should note that the Bite/Claw cost reduction is only a personal observation and by no means an official position. Rakashans still value them separately:
          Agile (+2)
          Bite/Claws (+1/+2)
          Bloodthirsty (-2)
          Can't Swim (-1)
          Low Light Vision (+1)
          Racial Enemy (-1)
          TOTAL +2

          The same thing is likely happening with the Kehana. In all honestly, there are still some advantages to having a Bite independant of Claws, such as if the character's hands are bound they might still have a decent damage attack. It's pretty niche, but it's there.

          Indeed I miscalculated the power points with +10 / per edge. Kraken Vigorous looks to me like an obvious a c/p error. Reducing Magical Affinity to 5 pp / one edge should balance the Kraken.
          Yeah. Kraken never got a Vigor boost in the original so this looks like a clear mistake. Also, originally the +10 PP applied if the character took an AB, but got nothing if they didn't. The "balance" there was that either way the player would be sacrificing 2 points worth of benefits if they really didn't want to play an Elementalist. They were essentially forced into the role. It was a cheapshot, for sure, but the conversion seemed to overcorrect by keeping the "+10 PP," then offering an equivalent option, instead of scaling it back.

          For Red Men I would additionaly cut the Notice penalty from Clueless (+1). Nerves of Steel makes sense. I would also offer Berserk or Brute as an alternative that reflect physical prowess and savagery.
          Yeah, there's a number of Edges that can fit: Iron Jaw, Hard to Kill, etc. Maybe a good solution is just offer a short list of Novice Combat Edges to choose from and let the player decide. That's probably worth about +3 since the Edge would ignore any other requirements while offering a choice.

          Clueless is referencing the Hindrance, which does include the Notice penalty. You could drop it, but then it wouldn't be "Clueless." You'd have to call it something else to avoid confusion. That would, however, mean the new ability and the Hindrance could then stack (for -2 CK, -1 Notice).

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by Dire Weasel View Post
            It looks like this error is still in the document:
            https://www.peginc.com/store/50-fath...ion-pdf-swade/
            As of 9th August 2021, it's still there, the error uncorrected. I think Benl first reported this almost a year ago. :-(

            Comment


            • Deskepticon
              Deskepticon commented
              Editing a comment
              Hopefully that means that PEG are busy with new projects, and updating a conversion doc for an old setting that (arguably) few people are still playing is not that high on the list.

              But, yeah... it would be nice to see these things actually addressed and clarified.
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