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  • SWADE Vehicle Guide

    I'm loving this; I've just started diving into the vehicles for a personal project so this landed just in time. I especially like that the average mass is changing for different vehicle classifications (notably lighter for aircraft, as it should be).

    Couple quick bits:
    Page 11: The Industrial Age Toughness values seem a bit high, especially if representing WWII-era tanks. Comparing to the core rules Sherman, Stuart, Tiger, etc. the "average" Industrial Toughness for a Size 8 is almost as much as the Tiger II in the book—a tank with some of the best armor of the war. I don't think this is an "issue" but I thought it was worth pointing out that these are more reference values to start creating with than a universal values table. (Interesting to note though that the Sherman is almost spot-on as a Size 8 if it's considered a "non-frontline vehicle" giving it exactly the 24 (8) Toughness it has in SWADE Core.)
    Page 17: Under Jet Aeroplanes, it's implied that Mach 1 is 660 MPH. You're about 100 MPH off, Mach 1 is 767 MPH.
    Page 21: I love the inclusion of the "rough formula" for determining Toughness via the thing you want hurting it, but your math is off. I know you're looking to exclude Aces, but once you start getting into 3+ dice you really can't—dice will be Acing far more often and the weapons will be a lot more dangerous than you imply here. Using your formula, rather than adding half a point per die, you get a much closer approximation if you just add +1 per die instead of +0.5. Similarly, the +3.5 for a raise should be +4 instead (average value of an exploding d6 is 4.2).

    In accordance, the example should add 20, +4 for the number of dice, and +4 for challenge, bringing him to a total of 58 (30) instead of 55 (30). A small difference but it really starts to add up at the high ends of durability.

    This page also references a "War Walker"—I don't know what that is, but if you use the tables in this document 58 (30) (or even 55 (30)) matches much closer to a Size 9 Futuristic Military Ground Vehicle.

    Loving the product, gonna have it open a lot over the next few months.
    Join the Unofficial Savage Worlds Discord! Check out Expanded Wealth!

    My thoughts, musings, and general character adaptations on Savage Everything.

  • #2
    The speed of sound (Mach 1) changes by altitude. At 35,000 ft elevation, it is 660 MPH
    I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

    Comment


    • Ndreare
      Ndreare commented
      Editing a comment
      Yep, you are correct. Everyone always wants one magic number to put in, but it varies quite a bit even from morning to evening.
      We deal with ultrasound for industrial inspection, and surveillance. Everything affects the speed of sound, especially; altitude, temperature, density, impurities, moisture content and many more things. Basically this denser and more regular the material the faster displacement works, the thinner and less consistent the slower.

    • DoctorBoson
      DoctorBoson commented
      Editing a comment
      Ah, should've realized it was referring to Mach 1 at airliner altitudes. Thanks for the clarification!

  • #3
    I am still digesting, but I really like most of what i in the book and overall would give it a 3.5 stars or a 7 in 10 for usefulness. I plan on using it in my Rifts Phase World game right away and potentially in others as time goes on.

    The reason I would not give 5 stars? Well there are two real bumps; a minor and major.
    1) Minor, but I was frustrated at first when I realized it is intended to be more of a conversion guide and not a build guide. I think that could have been clearer in the splash page. But rereading I can see it is there, just not obvious.

    2) Major, Also was disappointed there is no guideline at all for offensive ability. I really expect something like the "expected number of weapons" on the charts somewhere and I do not see it. This could be a generic issue though as some ships may have hundreds of guns, like a Spanish galleon, while others only have a few, like a modern aircraft carrier. But I still expected to see an output of some sort.

    The conversation about lower toughness for speed or more offense would have been a good place to put this information.
    Example: A military ship will typically have Size/5 weapons that can be brought to bear in any given direction or something.

    Comment


    • DoctorBoson
      DoctorBoson commented
      Editing a comment
      I can see why a "weapon capacity" bit would've been nice but the trouble is that such a rating just couldn't hold true (as you said—the variance is enormous and it depends on the setting). It's also not something that's inherent to the vehicle itself because "weapons" is ridiculously broad. You can have ships that only have one or two huge gigantic cannons for dealing with the big threats, and ships that have dozens and dozens of small guns for dealing with aerial threats, smaller cannons for smaller boats, torpedoes for anti-submarine use, and those same big ol' cannons for similarly-sized ships. Including a flat "Size × Y" or "Size / Y" number of weapons would cause others problems for the exact opposite reasons that you might find it useful.

      As the document notes on page 5, doing research on historical or fictional craft is easy as pie, and if it's totally original you'll almost certainly be able to find a real or fictional analogue that you can use as a base—those can easily be used as a starting point for the number of weapons you're working with. If you're working in Rifts then just take a look at the kind of vehicles from the old Palladium books and use the armaments there as a reference point.

    • Ndreare
      Ndreare commented
      Editing a comment
      DoctorBoson yeah. i agree. Like I noted and you noted it is just too hard for consistency. Even ships of the same size and era create conflicts.

      The USS Kirk was 1/4 the size of the USS Ronald Reagan and had five times the offensive fire power. But the Ronald Reagan carried air craft and nuclear missiles.

      I just do not see a way it could have been satisfied without an endless books of very subjective examples. that is why my own comment listed what was flawed with the idea.

      PS: I still say it is a good book and 7 out of 10. If it was less than $7 I would rate it higher.

      PPS: Have you seen Juggernaut yet?

    • DoctorBoson
      DoctorBoson commented
      Editing a comment
      I saw that it's out and wanna give it a look but unfortunately my budget is a bit thin. My understanding is it has that vehicle quirk table which has me deeply intrigued, I really want to see what they did there.

  • #4
    I had no idea this was out. Thanks!

    Comment

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