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Fate Chips for Deadlands (any version)

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  • Fate Chips for Deadlands (any version)

    Thinking of starting some adventures in the Faraway System. Is anyone using the Reloaded version of Fate Chips in their SciFi/Horror/Western mash up?

  • #2
    You could, but no version of Deadlands since 2008 has used Fate Chips. There are reasons for that.
    I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

    Comment


    • Hellfire6A
      Hellfire6A commented
      Editing a comment
      DLR was published in 2011 and used Fate Chips. I thought that was the latest version of DL. Why do you think they stopped using them?
      Last edited by Hellfire6A; 01-24-2020, 01:20 AM.

    • ValhallaGH
      ValhallaGH commented
      Editing a comment
      Hellfire6A The most recent Player's Guide is 10204, the Explorer's Edition, which is copyright 2011. It updated the 2006 rules to mesh with the then current Savage Worlds Explorer's Edition, which included the Guts skill.
      By contrast, Hell On Earth Reloaded is copyright 2012, Deadlands Noir is copyright 2012, and Lost Colony is copyright 2019. None of them use colored Fate Chips, Guts skill, or the Grit mechanic.

    • Hellfire6A
      Hellfire6A commented
      Editing a comment
      You still didn't answer my question. Why did they stop using Fate Chips? As an aside they had the choice to change the way they made the rules for the game the copyright is 2011 as you pointed out the rules are updated from 2006 rules. Updated in 2011 I would guess. So the most current rules are from 2011. You even point out that the earliest version to change from Fate Chips to bennies was HOE in 2012. I have DLR from 2006 through the most recent 10204 (so technically I guess PEG is supporting the rules with Fate Chips through 2019). I also happen to have a "Deadlands Delux-ified" that came out in 2012 that uses SWD and still used Fate Chips (or at least doesn't explicitly do away with them). I realize you are a pedant. However, you, personally, are the reason I stopped commenting on Rifts. You, personally, are the reason I have stayed off the forums. I am tired of being corrected on things that make absolutely no difference to the question I asked. I asked "why did they stop using Fate Chips?". If you don't know the reason why, don't give me a bunch of rigamarole about something that doesn't answer the question. I deal with enough contrarian and contradictory people every day. I don't need it in my hobby. And no your "I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear." doesn't cut it. It does not give you the excuse to be offensive and contrarian. Please if the comment you are making could be construed as offensive don't post it. Don't pretend that because you are just trying to correct someone that it is in any way okay. If I post on here I don't want to be corrected; I want to be answered. I get on the forum to talk to like minded individuals and for the enjoyment of my hobby. I have spent thousands of dollars on PEG products over the years. It is ridiculous that one person could be so egregiously offensive that it could make me quit the forums, but you are coming exceedingly close to being that ridiculous. You have already done it once.
      Last edited by Hellfire6A; 01-24-2020, 04:13 AM. Reason: Grammar, Clarity, and being offended.

  • #3
    They are used in Serrano's Eberron port to Savage Worlds. I have used them since it kinda hits the theme of Eberron. But its not really added much other than occasion +d6 (those players seem unwilling to add d6 if the chip comes to me). I am thinking of changing the dynamic going forward.
    Jeffrey...
    Left is Death!

    Comment


    • Kristian Serrano
      Kristian Serrano commented
      Editing a comment
      You beat me to it.

    • amerigoV
      amerigoV commented
      Editing a comment
      Come on Serrano, keep up the pace!

    • Kristian Serrano
      Kristian Serrano commented
      Editing a comment
      Rolling my running die... 1. Ugh.

  • #4
    Hellfire6A The reasons are a bit unclear, but what I've read or deduced are the following:
    • Bring Deadlands closer to the core rules. Deadlands is PEG's "flagship" game setting, the first thing the company released and arguably what they are still best known for. It's been a successful brand for over 20 years, and is a common entry point for the Savage Worlds rules. So, they want it to be pretty close to those core rules. Stated.
    • Keep Critical Failure meaningful. Red and Blue chips can negate any Critical Failure by adding +1d6 to the roll. With Critical Failures becoming a core rule, this might be seen as a bad design decision. Inferred.
    • The powers that be aren't helping the heroes out. This reason makes sense for Noir and HOE, but isn't necessarily applicable to the Weird West.
    • Simplification. People always seem to have trouble with the rules for Red chips. Inferred.
    • Highlight how the rules are different from Classic. With the many Classic players, they assume they know the new rules because the setting is the same. Having colored Fate Chips doesn't help prevent the confusion. Inferred.
    • Smoother game play. As noted in the Fate Chips & Fear sidebar in Hell On Earth: Reloaded. Fate Chips aren't even mentioned in Noir or Lost Colony, implying that the issue is so resolved that it's not worth mentioning.
    I guess that Fate Chips are still in reloaded because of inertia. They were in Classic (poker chips are thematic, distinctive, and kind of fun), so when bringing the setting over to Savage they kept Fate Chips pretty much as they had worked in Classic without questioning it. At that point, they were an established setting rule that the fan base was really attached to, and major alterations to a setting rule (especially such a pervasive setting rule) are a bit much for a simple "new printing" update. Especially since they lacked a fitting story point* to trigger the change.
    *The changes to Blessed where mechanically necessary but where bundled with the story of how the servitors where changing the metaphysics of divine intervention.

    My expectation is that the Guts skill, Grit derived trait, and multi-colored Fate Chips will disappear with the post-Cackler update.
    Guts is going away because of a) the new Skill / Attribute paradigm and b) the pervasiveness of Fear in a post-Cackler world.
    Grit is a game breaking rule so it will almost certainly change because of that. While I don't like the Lost Colony version of the Grit / True Grit edges, that's a matter of specifics and not general design.
    Fate Chips will probably be going away for the reasons I noted earlier, and justified by the post-Cackler changes to the metaphysics.

    As for why there aren't colored Fate Chips in Faraway?
    I'd speculate that concerns over complexity, page space, and game play that matched the style of the core rules where the main decision points.
    On the magical and story side, Fate busted her hump getting heroes and the Reckoners onto Banshee to settle this mess. That's as much help as she can provide.


    I apologize for causing you to retreat from posting as often.
    I won't be withholding any post that could be construed as offensive because I've learned that people can take offense to virtually anything, myself included. Innocent statements or gestures, made with the best of intentions, are perceived as attacks and digs. This issue is exacerbated in text due to the lack of facial and vocal cues of intent, making it even easier for the reader to perceive whatever meaning or intent the reader's mood encourages them to see. I know this happens because I've been on both sides of such confusion.
    That said, I can be better. I can word things more kindly, let others provide answers, and comment less often. I'm attempting to do these things, but I can still be better.
    I apologize for the harm I've caused.
    I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

    Comment


    • ValhallaGH
      ValhallaGH commented
      Editing a comment
      Kristian Serrano PEG hasn't retracted, altered, or removed the Fate Chips setting rule. Yet. Clearly we both think they will, we're just speculating about different ways we think they will do so.

      The only design reason PEG has given for removing Fate Chip is the first one I listed: to keep the settings close to the core rules. I assume there are others, and I speculate about what some of them are, but the only one I've seen given is "closer to core". They've given story reasons (see the John Goff post I linked), and they've hinted at other design reasons in various postings, interviews, discussions, and announcements but those aren't explicitly stated reasons. Which is what you seem to be wanting me to spout off.

    • Kristian Serrano
      Kristian Serrano commented
      Editing a comment
      Weren't those cases specific to those settings and not the Weird West per se?

      And no I don't think they will, but I'm not going to assume they absolutely wouldn't.
      Last edited by Kristian Serrano; 01-25-2020, 02:05 PM.

    • Hellfire6A
      Hellfire6A commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks for posting the comments on Fate chips. I like them but I can see the reasons explicit and implicit to get rid of them. That brings me to a different question which I will post as a different topic. As to your comments being offensive and you wanting to do better...get rid of the signature. It makes it sound as if you're saying, "this is the way I am so why should I try." If you want to learn from your mistakes you have to reflect on each incident and apologize for each incident. Your signature undermines your effort to be accountable for your actions. I do appreciate your well worded apology. And I accept it. Nuance is lost with electronic communication. I have had some pretty good training in that department (I don't always heed the rules and I have been bitten many times). I would encourage everyone to remember that words in this format can be easily misconstrued and it doesn't have anything to do with sensitivity or being easily offended. Sometimes what we write can easily be offensive. English is a horrific language to learn and use because we weight the same word with so many different meanings. Anyway thanks.
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