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  • #31
    Originally posted by DoctorBoson View Post
    My problem with Vault Dwellers only having the Common Knowledge penalty is that it makes it out to be a slightly more specific version of the Clueless Edge, which doesn't seem as severe of a culture shock to me as you might think from, y'know, living in sheltered metal tunnels your whole life.
    Fair. But given some of the experiments that the vault dwellers have been subjected to, assuming the vault was peaceful, safe, or sanity protecting is unreasonable.
    The kids who overthrew and escaped from Vault 75 are terrifying killers who know nothing about the surface but know a lot about technology, weapons, tactics, and have a lot of practice using those weapons.
    The folks that escaped from Vault 22 had seen some mind bending horrors but still functioned. And while the Survivalist doesn't paint them as particularly skilled combatants, that old man was a death ghost on par with any stealth-sniper player character.
    I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

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    • #32
      Those are good counterexamples. It could function well as a Major/Minor, with the Major more geared towards "traditional" vault dwellers like normal Fallout PC characters and very severe, and the Minor more geared towards vault survivors like the examples listed above, who still suffer the penalty to Common Knowledge/Survival but can still eventually grow past those penalties—but also don't have the benefits of the major like a Pip-Boy and discounted gear. Perhaps such survivors also have a Charisma penalty that can eventually be bought off due to twitches, withdrawn tendencies, odd behavior, etc that wouldn't come from the more well-adjusted vault dwellers with the Major Hindrance.
      Join the Unofficial Savage Worlds Discord!

      My thoughts, musings, and general character adaptations on Savage Everything.

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      • IlzmerZolond
        IlzmerZolond commented
        Editing a comment
        This sounds like you're overdefining it. You're baking in a lot of things that aren't a core part of being a Vault Dweller as we see them, because you could interpret Vault Dwellers as having them. That sounds like just other Hindrances instead that you can choose to take or not take.

        The Vault Dweller subrace I made gives them a Tag Skill (free d6+2) and the Pip-Boy, on top of being Adaptable. In exchange they get a -1 penalty of being sheltered and not knowing how the outside world works, which is a conditional Common Knowledge penalty and roleplaying hindrance. There's a list of suggested Hindrances to take to reflect how you may or may not be shocked by or unsuited to the world, but none are required.

      • ValhallaGH
        ValhallaGH commented
        Editing a comment
        IlzmerZolond A d6+2 in any skill is absurdly powerful. Fighting is the only skill where it isn't "guaranteed success", and even then it is insanely powerful because static modifiers are king. That's a +3 racial ability (+1 for d6 skill, +2 for +2 to a single skill), plus Adaptable, plus a Pip-Boy. For a minor version of Clueless. That's a really powerful race. I hope your other human races are as blessed.

      • IlzmerZolond
        IlzmerZolond commented
        Editing a comment
        They are +4 races, so, yes. They get +4 before adding negatives. The d6+2 is only for noncombat skills and represents the Vault's store of learning material, things like the GOAT test funneling residents toward their optimal tasks, and assistance software on the Pip-Boy. Outside of that, the Pip-Boy is a +0 tool on your arm and I figure the benefit of "you start with a +0 piece of noncombat equipment" is less than 1 point and is offset by "people maaaaaay want to saw your arm off to get it."

        Humans should still be "generic-ish" so I figure they ought to have 1 point of drawbacks at most, except for special cases like Synths.

    • #33
      Nick isn't the example. Codsworth and KL-E-0 are the examples.
      Ah, so a robot that doesn't look human. How about the school teacher Miss Edna Diamond City in Fallout 4? The one who is secretly in love with the human teacher Mister Zwicky. If you encourage it they even get married by Pastor Clements. Admittedly they are only minor characters but no one seems to freak out over this.

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      • ValhallaGH
        ValhallaGH commented
        Editing a comment
        Yeah, Miss Edna would be covered by this.
        That is, by far, the best counter argument for that drawback. Darn it. Now I have to think of a -2 racial ability (or two -1 abilities).

      • IlzmerZolond
        IlzmerZolond commented
        Editing a comment
        -2 Charisma is only a -1 ability. That's why I suggested "Minor Vow, if you are still on your owner's mission, or Minor Hunted, if they want you back" to replace it.

        If you need a -2, you can do both: the Vow represents fundamental aspects of your programming that you cannot discard no matter how much your program evolves, and Hunted is either your former owners, or people who are like "hey, that's a free robot if we just take it".

      • ValhallaGH
        ValhallaGH commented
        Editing a comment
        I ended up going with Code of Honor. I've replaced "Property" with "Personal Rules". A bit more up-front work, but I think it will work out better.
        The previous version was the Major variant of Outsider (from the SFC).

    • #34
      Concerning Robots
      I like the recent change (Code of Honor) to robots. It adds a flavorful approach not shared by the other races. The only suggestion I would make is to give it more of a "robot-y" name; something like Personal Protocol, or Prime Directive.
      ______

      So, from what I can tell the main Robot race amounts to approximately +1, with the specific type of robot model providing the remaining +1 worth of abilities.

      • There is the milder version of Construct for +5 (ignore one wound [+1]; immune to poison/disease [+2]; doesn't breathe [+2]; Repair instead of Healing, et al [+0]).
      Electricity Weakness (-0.5) and Radiation Resistance (+0.5) effectively cancel each other out. They might as well be returned to their full scale versions as they will still cancel out... or not, it's all the same.
      Hackable System I estimate to be -2. It's essentially the puppet power tied to a difficult skill roll.
      Non-Standard Physiology is a difficult one to value. It is almost like the roleplay effect that comes with increased or decreased Size (i.e., can't fit standard clothes or armor; can't ride in small vehicles; can't reach the top shelf; etc, etc). The Size ability doesn't officially give this facet any real value, so I'm giving it a floating +0 (the fact that it specifically says armor is triple the cost has me leaning slightly toward the negative end though).
      Personal Rules is a solid -2.
      • From what I can gather, Worn Out is just a bit of fluff-text letting players know that playable robots are essentially "stripped down" versions, and they don't automatically come equipped with the weapons and accessories the games depict them with. This makes them no different, equipment-wise, than other playable races. [+0]

      By these evaluations, the "basic" robot is a +1 race, and both the Mr.Handy and Assaultron robot models balance out at +1, giving us a total of +2.
      _________

      Assuming my evaluations are close to your own (and I'm happy to discuss how I arrived at them, because I may be "off"), I think this race is very Playable.

      I would like to see you tackle the Sentry Bot and Robobrain, adding them to the list. As the entry reads now, it seems you are encouraging players/GMs to design their own robot models, presumably at +1 (though that's not expressed). Not to sound too cynical, but it might be a better design decision to "close off" the race and ask players to simply choose from a list of models.

      Comment


      • ValhallaGH
        ValhallaGH commented
        Editing a comment
        You are correct, the base robot is +1 and the specific model is also +1, for a +2 race. That was intentional.

        I might tackle other robot models, but I'm not sure if I want to. Sentry Bots never struck me as particularly intelligent or interesting*, and Robobrains are so evil that I'm reluctant to include them. Still, I'll think about it.

        *Good point about Capt. Ironsides. He is an American hero, even if he completely misunderstood his orders to "defend the Constitution". Need to think about that some more.
        Last edited by ValhallaGH; 06-14-2018, 02:28 AM.

      • IlzmerZolond
        IlzmerZolond commented
        Editing a comment
        Captain Ironsides is an intelligent Sentry Robot. As well as being an American hero.

        I'm fine with a "add traits to make your own robot" approach, if it's from a smaller list or constrained in some way. We got a whole Automatron DLC where you do just that. It covers edge cases that should probably exist, like Nick Valentine, custom-built robots made from scrap parts, and also I don't have to argue with you to put in "Duraframe Eyebot who speaks entirely in clips from old radio plays and commercials". This isn't a video game; you don't need to worry about making new models and animations.

      • Deskepticon
        Deskepticon commented
        Editing a comment
        ValhallaGH It's a clever approach. I like the variety it fosters.

        Yeah, robobrains are evil, but that may also be an interesting roleplay opportunity. "Come out. I won't hurt you." *zzaapp*

    • #35
      I just kept getting bogged down in trying to write full descriptive text for everything in a "races" section so I finally just slapped together the stat blocks with mostly perfunctory text. And here they are Some of them are notably missing things, some are longer than others, some may be bad, they reference Perks which are not in there, also if Deadlands can change names to "Marshal" and "Fate Chip" you can probably be confident changing "Edge" to "Perk". It is open to changes but it is where my head is at.
      Last edited by IlzmerZolond; 06-15-2018, 01:12 AM.

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      • #36
        Originally posted by IlzmerZolond View Post
        I just kept getting bogged down in trying to write full descriptive text for everything in a "races" section so I finally just slapped together the stat blocks with mostly perfunctory text. And here they are Some of them are notably missing things, some are longer than others, some may be bad, they reference Perks which are not in there, also if Deadlands can change names to "Marshal" and "Fate Chip" you can probably be confident changing "Edge" to "Perk". It is open to changes but it is where my head is at.
        Personally I think the short racial descriptions work pretty well and I think the "You've survived the Wasteland by X" lines are cool. I have a few suggestions for the races that don't have one of their own.

        For Ghouls you could have something along the lines of "You've survived the Wasteland by being mutated by it."
        For Super Mutants you could have "You've survived the Wasteland because you were created to."
        For Deathclaws you could use "You've survived the Wasteland by being a part of it."
        For Robots maybe something like "You've survived the Wasteland because of pre-war engineering."

        Also, since you've included subcategories of humans, I think it would be important to add in a NCR-raised human template. The NCR, by the time of New Vegas/Fallout 4, is more or less back at a pre-Great War levels in California. New construction, printing, radio(& possibly video) broadcasting, and manufacturing capabilities are present, as is a mostly-functional democracy with taxes and infrastructure, a state military with an air force and motorized division. Basically, the life and experiences of someone growing up in Vault City or New Reno are going to be vastly different to those of a Wastelander, Raider, Tribal, or Vault Dweller.

        I would also consider adding an Enclave template considering you've included a BoS template--it only makes sense to.


        How True-To-Lore(tm) do you intend for this all to be? Is there a specific point on the timeline or game that you're basing this conversion from, or do you intend for this to be a general Fallout "toolkit" of sorts? I ask because you mention that the PipBoy is non-removable when there are multiple models of the computer, some of which are removable without amputation. How you have it now is fine if you're basing this on Fallout 3+ continuity, but if you're pulling from the entire series (and if you're including Deathclaw PC template you probably are), then that line wouldn't be true since different vaults were given different Pipboys. Heck, even the recent E3 2018 trailer for Fallout 76 prominently displays a removable Pipboy.
        Last edited by Uncle Boss; 06-16-2018, 01:32 AM.

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        • IlzmerZolond
          IlzmerZolond commented
          Editing a comment
          "Survived the Wasteland by X" was a human-only thing because the conceit was, the different subraces of human are differentiated by how they survived the Wasteland. It may make sense to give that kind of text to everyone though, I guess it depends on what people get from it.

          NCR citizen makes sense, though I'd expand it to not just be the NCR because I am pretty sure there is or was functional civilization in the Midwest Brotherhood's area of protection (it's the only way it makes sense for the Enclave to have crossed over without doing anything of note in the entire middle of the country, that space was already occupied). What would their mechanical bonus be? The obvious choice is Charisma because they deal with other people the most, and they're well-fed and cleaner. But I worry that because of how Charisma works once you have one type of human with a Charisma bonus you're saying "don't bother making any other type of human character who wants Charisma, they'll be inferior."

          Enclave are also an obvious choice, and I did consider them. I just thought as total outsiders, they'd have to be something "weird" and pattern-breaking the way Synths are, and I didn't know what to give them.

          I'd like to be True To Lore but adapt as necessary. Chopping arms off for Pip-Boys is a very minor detail in the scheme of things; if I specified "they want to steal it" then that would result in "character loses access to racial feature" instead of "character is put into danger in a way they can be saved from".

      • #37
        Instead of a direct Charisma bonus, perhaps NCR citizens start with the Connections edge for free. No doubt there's many organizations, groups, and mob families operating within the NCR and it makes sense to me that somebody who grew up in the NCR would have some connections to people or groups there. Maybe they could even be literate. I'd imagine illiteracy is still the norm among people. Idk, I'm just spit-balling here.

        As for the Enclave, I'm thinking science-tech related bonuses. They have knowledge of and access to the very advanced of technology, including safehouses and bunkers. Outsider and Major Wanted (NCR) hindrances could be flavored to represent the fact that they're reviled war criminals who are thrown in prison indefinitely when their Enclave affiliation is discovered, if they're not outright killed. You could also play with the fact that the Enclave have "purer", less irradiated genes-maybe they're extra susceptible to radiation damage?
        Last edited by Uncle Boss; 06-17-2018, 01:11 AM.

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        • IlzmerZolond
          IlzmerZolond commented
          Editing a comment
          The rules have to be broadly applicable and work everywhere. An NCR citizen COULD have the Connections edge -- but do ALL of them have it? I can easily see a fictional setting where "if you grew up here, you have connections, because it's the only way to survive", but that's not what the NCR appears to be. And the template can't just work for the NCR, it has to work for Ronto, St. Louis, the Motor City, et cetera. If they had a Charisma bonus, that would be because no matter who you are, if you matured in a place like this, you look nicer and you have way more experience dealing with unfamiliar people than anyone else.

          Also illiteracy is not the norm -- everyone leaves written notes and terminal entries.

          Enclave template should be vulnerable to radiation, definitely. Maybe they could have some version of "Connections" to get cool stuff, but how do you stop them from reselling it? The Enclave template has to work for people who originate in the Enclave, not just active members, so it's gotta work for Arcade Gannon as well. Being Wanted with the NCR doesn't work, because it has to work in areas where there is no NCR.

        • ValhallaGH
          ValhallaGH commented
          Editing a comment
          @IlzmerZolond
          The best way to avoid Charisma stacking with the "well fed" people is to simply give them Attractive. They all benefit from better-than-average nutrition, medical care, hygiene, and the confidence that comes from living in a (relatively) peaceful and protected society - all of which can make a person much more appealing than usual. And, since they're using part of the charisma stack, it doesn't break anything.

      • #38
        On the whole ghoul mechanics of how radiation effects them and going feral, IIRC from the various Fallout games (most notably FO 3), not only are ghouls not effected by radiation, but it actually heals them. As a racial ability, what if you set it up that ghouls who accumulate a certain amount of fatigue from radiation can metabolize it to instantly heal a wound category either as an alternative to or supplement to your rules.

        The down side being that like the savage rifts juicer they can only do this so many time before they go feral (burn out), and have to roll a "radiation die" when they use this ability to see if they keep their mind or not. Since they are not as over the top as Juicers, I'd suggest they only roll every time they use radiation to heal, if they roll over the number of points they have left then they'd loose a die of smarts, when they run out of smarts or use their last point they go feral and become an NPC. It makes your ghoul characters harder to kill in certain environments, and player can choose to use it or not (or rely on rad away and rad x), OR you make it the only way for them to clear out radiation from their system, letting them be otherwise immune to radiation effects as fatigue (but tracked). Any way just an idea as opposed to some of the other comments.
        Behold, mankind's 3rd greatest invention: Chocolate Milk!

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        • #39
          Assuming you were talking to me and not IlzmerZolond.
          Originally posted by J_cobbers View Post
          As a racial ability, what if you set it up that ghouls who accumulate a certain amount of fatigue from radiation can metabolize it to instantly heal a wound category either as an alternative to or supplement to your rules.
          That seems more complicated and less elegant than the current accelerated natural healing benefit.

          Tying their healing ability to a "burn" mechanic is definitely more complicated and I don't currently see a benefit to it.
          I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

          Comment


          • #40
            Agreed. A burn mechanic does seem to overcomplicate it. My writeup is pretty close to yours, though I opted to make going feral a ghoul-specific Hindrance, and make them outright immune to the harmful effects of radiation rather than just resistant to it. (I opted to make Super Mutants resistant but not immune.)

            The different levels of radiation map to the low and high levels of radiation hazards in the core SWD book, so they get increasing levels of regeneration as other people have to make more frequent radiation hazard rolls. That difference is mostly just preference, though.

            Ghoul
            • Immune to Disease (1): Ghouls are immune to all diseases that impact humans.
            • Immune to Radiation (2): As creatures born of radiation, ghouls are immune to the danger of radiation, experiencing it as a warm glow. This sense allows them to identify and locate radiation sources with a Notice roll.
            • Radiation Healing (2): Ghouls in an area of standard background radiation (such as most of the wastes) roll natural healing rolls normally. In an area of moderate radiation, they roll a natural healing roll once per day. In an area of high radiation, they roll natural healing rolls once per hour.
            • Ugly (-1): Most wastelanders find ghouls to be hideous creatures, and they regularly face prejudice even in the most accepting communities. They gain the Ugly hindrance.
            • Weak (-2): The degraded body of a ghoul isn't as strong as an average human. They suffer a *-1 penalty to all Strength rolls, including melee damage.

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            • #41
              I also allowed a racial Edge to be a Glowing One. It's dangerous for allies, but *great* if you have nearby ghoul friends.

              Glowing One (Racial)
              Requirements: Novice, Ghoul
              You have been heavily infused with radiation, and have become a glowing one. Your skin and eyes glow with a greenish cast, and you emit light and radiation wherever you go, generally requiring you to stay away from your companions or cause them to suffer exposure to a low radiation hazard every hour. You suffer a -2 penalty to Stealth rolls. You can spend a Cap (bennie) to gather your radioactive power and emit a burst of radiation (2d6 radiation damage in a Medium Burst Template, centered on you). Other ghouls in that area may immediately make a Vigor roll; if successful they heal one Wound.

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              • #42
                I've updated my adaptation to Adventure Edition.
                If you see something wrong, broken, or confusing then I would appreciate being told of it.

                Ghouls are still Outsiders but no other race is. Bigotry seems to primarily be a ghoul problem in the sources. In compensation, ghouls no longer need radiation to heal faster.
                The gear section now has a big table of weapons. And a big table of firearms.
                Armors have been re-balanced. I'm happier with them but I may have missed something.
                Threats have been updated. I think I got them all.
                Setting rules have been changed, trying to better match the existing rules.

                Input welcome.
                I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

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