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Setting Rule and Edge for 1-handed weapons wielded in two hands (or on their own)

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  • Setting Rule and Edge for 1-handed weapons wielded in two hands (or on their own)

    In sword & sorcery literature and media (in the sense of Conan, Red Sonja, Kull, Lankhmar etc.) heroes often fight with just a single weapon and their off-hand free. What do you think about the following setting rule and edge for making this fighting style viable?

    Versatile Weapon (Setting Rule): If you are attacking with a one-handed weapon and your other hand is free (or you are holding the weapon in both hands) you add +1 to damage rolls.

    Dueling Style (Combat Edge, Novice, Fighting d8+): If you are attacking with a one-handed melee weapon and your other hand is free (or you are holding the weapon in both hands) you add +1 to Fighting rolls.

    Seems like a fair trade vs a two handed weapon: slightly less damage in exchange for lower weight (weight 1 vs weight 2 since I am using Zadmar's Savage Armoury). Also seems like a fair trade vs. dual wielding (lower edge cost) and you gain slightly more offense compared to using a shield.

    What do you think?
    Last edited by Shoggoth; 01-14-2018, 12:10 AM.

  • #2
    I'll note that one-handed weapons generally have damage one step lower than two-handed weapons, but don't have the Parry penalty. So, effectively, they have +1 Parry and -1 damage compared to the two-handed versions, making them better than two-handed weapons in most situations.
    The empty off-hand is having to compete with two-weapons (edge intensive) and shield styles. The innate penalties to two-weapon fighting make it pretty balanced until the two-weapon character takes a few edges. Which means empty-hand needs to be competitive with shield, but not so much that two-handed is completely worthless.
    Shields have money cost, weight, and hand-filling as drawbacks and Parry bonus and ranged weapon Armor (limited by direction) as benefits.
    Empty-hand is free and weightless. However, it does require your hand to be empty, mostly, so it retains most of one penalty. As a bonus, why not "Lunge (Setting Rule): When using a one-handed weapon and an empty off-hand, increase the reach of Fighting attacks with your weapon by +1, on your Turn."? Grants a useful bonus (+1 Reach on your turn), doesn't affect actions off your turn, and gives us a bonus type that isn't already being used by the other fighting styles.

    For the edge, I'd suggest looking at the Florentine edge. It has a generic mechanic (+1 Fighting, limited circumstances) and a mostly unique mechanic (reduced Gang Up, and maximum) when using the two-weapon fighting style.
    So a generic bonus fitting with the style (+1 Fighting against foes with weapon & shield), and a cool defensive bonus (-1 to ranged attacks against the character), and then a cool name (Blade Storm: Combat Edge, Novice, Vigor d8+, Fighting d8+).

    That's my thinking.

    Looking at Savage Armory, that evens out pretty well. By giving up a Shield, you're giving up a +3 ability (+1 Parry), so you'll want to grant a +3 ability (+1 Reach), similar to how the Two-Handed ability works.
    I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
      I'll note that one-handed weapons generally have damage one step lower than two-handed weapons, but don't have the Parry penalty. So, effectively, they have +1 Parry and -1 damage compared to the two-handed versions, making them better than two-handed weapons in most situations.
      Since I'm using Zadmar's Savage Armoury, two-handed weapons don't necessarily have a Parry Penalty. For example Zadmar's Greatsword is 1d10+Str, Weight 2, AP 1. So the greatsword would get AP 1 in exchange for 1 extra weight compared with a longsword wielded in two hands with my proposed setting rule. Do you think my proposed setting rule still makes two-handed weapons look like a bad bargain?

      Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
      As a bonus, why not "Lunge (Setting Rule): When using a one-handed weapon and an empty off-hand, increase the reach of Fighting attacks with your weapon by +1, on your Turn."? Grants a useful bonus (+1 Reach on your turn), doesn't affect actions off your turn, and gives us a bonus type that isn't already being used by the other fighting styles.

      For the edge, I'd suggest looking at the Florentine edge. It has a generic mechanic (+1 Fighting, limited circumstances) and a mostly unique mechanic (reduced Gang Up, and maximum) when using the two-weapon fighting style.
      So a generic bonus fitting with the style (+1 Fighting against foes with weapon & shield), and a cool defensive bonus (-1 to ranged attacks against the character), and then a cool name (Blade Storm: Combat Edge, Novice, Vigor d8+, Fighting d8+).

      That's my thinking.
      Hmm, the defensive bonus against ranged attacks doesn't seem particularly thematically appropriate to me, unless it's a wuxia game where monks are cutting arrows out of the air. The +1 Fighting vs. shielded opponents could work (using your free hand to grab their shield and yank them off balance) but I'll have to think about it.

      I remembered that Beasts & Barbarians has the One Hand and a Half Edge which lets you chose between +1 Damage or +1 Parry at the start of your turn when fighting with your off-hand free. What do you think about that one?

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Shoggoth View Post
        Since I'm using Zadmar's Savage Armoury, two-handed weapons don't necessarily have a Parry Penalty. For example Zadmar's Greatsword is 1d10+Str, Weight 2, AP 1. So the greatsword would get AP 1 in exchange for 1 extra weight compared with a longsword wielded in two hands with my proposed setting rule. Do you think my proposed setting rule still makes two-handed weapons look like a bad bargain?
        I do, though it's not as bad with Savage Armory.
        I will point to the Bastard Sword as a possible setting rule. It's a Longsword that you can use two-handed (increase damage one die type) but counts as two items. Alternately, it's a Greatsword that you can use like a Longsword instead of having AP 1 and Toughness 12.

        Hmm, the defensive bonus against ranged attacks doesn't seem particularly thematically appropriate to me, unless it's a wuxia game where monks are cutting arrows out of the air. The +1 Fighting vs. shielded opponents could work (using your free hand to grab their shield and yank them off balance) but I'll have to think about it.
        Eh, I'm not married to it. It fit the lunging, twirling, flowing cinematic fighting style that was in my head at the time, but the whole thing was a two minute thought experiment.
        If you want to cling to realistic fighting styles then you'll have a difficult time coming up with a single-blade-style edge; if you know significantly more about sword combat than I do then I'd be very interested to hear your reasoning on whatever you create.

        Edit: Thinking about what I do know, maybe an edge to make it easier to Push (or maybe Grapple) while fighting with a single blade.
        I remembered that Beasts & Barbarians has the One Hand and a Half Edge which lets you chose between +1 Damage or +1 Parry at the start of your turn when fighting with your off-hand free. What do you think about that one?
        I'd forgotten about that edge, thanks for the reminder.
        I like the edge, though +1 Damage is pretty weak for an edge - most of the time the Parry bonus is the better choice. If it was +2 Damage then it would be a real choice.
        Last edited by ValhallaGH; 01-14-2018, 03:51 AM.
        I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
          Eh, I'm not married to it. It fit the lunging, twirling, flowing cinematic fighting style that was in my head at the time, but the whole thing was a two minute thought experiment.
          If you want to cling to realistic fighting styles then you'll have a difficult time coming up with a single-blade-style edge; if you know significantly more about sword combat than I do then I'd be very interested to hear your reasoning on whatever you create.

          Edit: Thinking about what I do know, maybe an edge to make it easier to Push (or maybe Grapple) while fighting with a single blade.
          Not an expert in sword-fighting (unfortunately), but I just watch Lindy Beige and other educational vids on sword fighting once in a while. From what I do know about sword-fighting, when your off hand is free you can use your hand to grip your blade near the tip (at least for "longswords" and similar weapons) for parrying, as shown in this illustration:

          http://www.thearma.org/essays/FLAT151.gif

          I assume a similar technique would be use to parry if you're using a battle axe or warhammer two-handed as well.

          And of course gripping a sword, axe, or hammer in two hands allows you to apply much more force with your strike, so a bonus to damage or fighting is reasonable.

          And of course your suggestion of making it easier to Push and/or Grapple is right on. Looks like there was quite a lot of grappling involved in sword-fighting (grabbing your opponent's sword-arm and pulling them off balance for example) as shown in some of these illustrations:

          http://www.truefork.org/DragonPreser...es/fiore10.jpg
          http://www.truefork.org/DragonPreser...es/fiore11.jpg
          http://www.truefork.org/DragonPreser...les/fiore9.jpg

          Some alternative ways to model this stuff:

          1. I could model this by either a bonus to Athletics rolls to Grapple (Using the Flash Gordon grapple rules), or could model this by allowing the character to attack normally with their weapon against a grappled opponent, or perhaps give a free weapon attack after a successful Grapple or Push. Not sure how balanced this would be.

          2. Alternatively, this could be represented by a bonus to Fighting rolls (you use your free hand to unbalance your foe, lock their weapon arm so they can't parry, etc.) which I think is a decent FFF solution, but a bit boring maybe. However, I do like it because it makes different styles good at slightly different stuff, which is why I originally gravitated to this:

          TWF: Best for multiple attacks
          2Hand: Best for dealing high damage and AP (ideal for high armour and toughness opponents)
          1Hand: Best chance to hit (per attack)
          Sword & Shield: Best for defence.

          3. Lastly, I could also model this sort of stuff by a bonus to Strength or Athletics tricks involving your free hand (throwing sand or a mug of ale at your opponent, shoving them off balance, tugging on their sword-arm or shield, etc.), or perhaps adding a free attack when you succeed on a Strength or Athletics trick (bind your opponent's swordarm and then stab 'em in the chest). This is probably the most cinematic option, and I think probably best fits the tone pulp sword & sorcery genre. I could model this by remixing the Acrobat Edge: either +1 Parry or +1 Fighting Rolls (Zadmar rates these two equally) while you have your off-hand free or are holding your weapon in two hands, and maybe +2 to Strength or Athletics tricks involving your off-hand.

          I'm open to other suggestions; just trying to brainstorm at the moment. I could even make a family of edges mixing and matching some of these aspects (like how dual wielders have Florentine, Ambidextrous, and Two-Fisted).

          Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
          I'd forgotten about that edge, thanks for the reminder.
          I like the edge, though +1 Damage is pretty weak for an edge - most of the time the Parry bonus is the better choice. If it was +2 Damage then it would be a real choice.
          Do you think changing the +1 Damage to +1 Fighting make this Edge viable (I feel like +2 Damage might step a bit on the toes of 2-handed weapon fighters)? This would fit into my model 2 mentioned above.
          Last edited by Shoggoth; 01-14-2018, 12:33 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            Something Zadmar identified, provably, early on was that +1.5 damage = +1 Fighting = +1 Parry (approximately). (Incidentally, this is why he considers Wild Attack to be busted, and re-wrote his own version for his home games.)

            1. Numerical bonuses to grappling are boring but easily balanced. Much more interesting is allowing a character with a blade and an empty hand to maintain a grapple while still doing other stuff. I'm imagining a finger / wrist / arm lock that pins one foe to the ground while using their sword on the several foes coming in through the door.

            2. This ... is surprisingly persuasive reasoning. I like it, and with a flavorful and evocative name I think it would be well received.

            3. Trick bonuses are less interesting (to me) than edges that let you do tricks as multi-actions. Several (high-action) settings have edges that let you make a Trick and a Fighting attack in the same round without MAP. This is a good design space.

            I've long maintained that the various blade-grip techniques are Wild Attack descriptions. It's a stunningly versatile mechanic.
            I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

            Comment


            • #7
              Thing is, you have two hands to do things on combat, and you cannot use the same hand to do two different actions on the same round. I believe it means you cannot do agility tricks at all if you already used both hands to attack (either with a two-handed Weapon or with two Weapons).

              So the fighter who focuses on a single one-handed weapon leaves the possibility open for all sort of manoeuvers AND attack, something other builds cannot do without witholding attacking during the turn or dropping a weapon on the ground.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by dentris View Post
                Thing is, you have two hands to do things on combat, and you cannot use the same hand to do two different actions on the same round. I believe it means you cannot do agility tricks at all if you already used both hands to attack (either with a two-handed Weapon or with two Weapons).
                By that interpretation, characters would be unable to do more than two non-movement actions in a round.
                Part of a Trick is the description. Using a shield or (off-hand) blade to flick sand into a foe's eyes is pretty reasonable, and can obviously be done when your hands are full. Doing some action movie filler flips can be done when your hands are full, as can some Dark Souls combat rolls. All of those are reasonable descriptions of an Agility trick, and I'd have a hard time convincing my players that I wasn't being an arbitrary jerk to disallow those Tricks just because their hands are full.
                Last edited by ValhallaGH; 01-14-2018, 05:39 PM. Reason: Clarification
                I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
                  By that interpretation, characters would be unable to do more than two non-movement actions in a round.
                  Part of a Trick is the description. Using a shield or blade to flick sand into a foe's eyes is pretty reasonable, and can obviously be done when your hands are full. Doing some action movie filler flips can be done when your hands are full, as can some Dark Souls combat rolls. All of those are reasonable descriptions of an Agility trick, and I'd have a hard time convincing my players that I wasn't being an arbitrary jerk to disallow those Tricks just because their hands are full.
                  http://archive.pegforum.com/viewtopi...g+hand#p439168

                  This ruling covers using the same hand for two different actions in the same turn. So I believe no, you wouldn't be able to flick sands with your sword in the eyes of your opponent if you already attacked with it. Backflips and making your opponents trip with your legs is debatable. It could be argued both ways depending on the GM. (another link with a not totally related but still interesting answer by clint : http://archive.pegforum.com/viewtopi...g+hand#p461574)

                  You would still be able to do Smarts Tricks, Tests of Wills, use Powers and many other actions with the appropriate MAP in addition to the two ''hand'' actions, however.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    GM ruling is paramount.
                    But by the RAW, a character can have a two-handed weapon and still do Tricks, as long as those tricks don't require hands. As I said, description matters a lot. Attacks are hard-limited to available hands, as your second link references in the nested link, but other actions are possible subject to MAP and GM restrictions.

                    It's likely that in the coming edition, only Strength and Agility can be used for Tricks. Smarts is being moved to Tests of Will. A GM that won't allow physical Tricks with full hands is completely removing that mechanic from the players, and opening himself to a shield bash / stab by HEMA players (Historical European Martial Arts).

                    Powers may or may not need a hand, depending upon the casting trappings. Most magical styles require hands (somantic spell components, using a magical implement, or similar trappings). Psionics are the only power type that usually doesn't require a hand to use.
                    I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      It also opens an interesting design space for Edge design.

                      Balance
                      (Req: Novice, Agility d8+)
                      As long as you have at least one free hand, you receive +2 to all rolls made to resist push, grapple and disarm attempts, as well as +2 to resist Agility Tricks.

                      Underhanded Tactics
                      Req: Seasoned, Agility d8+
                      As long as you have one free hand, you receive +2 to all Agility Tricks, push, grapple or disarm attempts involving this hand.

                      Comment


                      • Shoggoth
                        Shoggoth commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Good suggestions!

                    • #12
                      Thanks for all of your feedback guys! I've been doing some more research on dueling with a one-handed sword or longsword (longsword is the usual term for what people call a bastard sword in the RPG world). A lot of the same fighting principles (grappling etc.) seem to apply to fighting with other slightly less nimble one-handed weapons (hammers, axes) so this edge should cover most one-handed weapon combat styles. Here's my new attempt at a 1-handed weapon edge, and another grappling edge that has good synergy with it:

                      Sword and Fist
                      Requirements: Novice, Fighting d8+, Agility d8+

                      You are adept at fighting with a lone one-handed weapon: you expertly use your free hand to grapple or unbalance your opponent, or half-sword for precise strikes into armor joints. You add +1 to Fighting rolls with a one-handed weapon as long as you are not holding a shield or a second weapon in your off-hand. In addition, when Grappling with a single hand you only suffer a -2 to Athletics rolls (rather than the usual -4).

                      This is a similar benefit to Florentine, but requires you to give up a rapier or parrying dagger in your off hand. I didn't want to give a flat +2 bonus to Athletics rolls to Grapple here, because it would remove the tactical choice of using one-hand or two for grappling, and it would shoehorn an unarmed martial artist character who wants to grapple into taking this edge. Notice that the wording doesn't force your off-hand to be completely free, so the +1 bonus to Fighting rolls still applies if you are grappling an opponent with your off-hand, or swinging on a rope for example, allowing for some cool swashbuckling action and avoiding some book-keeping. It works even better when you take the following edge:

                      Wrestler
                      Requirements: Novice, Atheltics d8+, Strength d8+

                      You add +2 to Athletics rolls to Grapple and +2 to Strength rolls to break free from a Grapple. In addition, if you have the Counterattack Edge, you may may choose to Grapple rather than make a Fighting attack when counterattacking (this suffers a -2 to the roll as usual, unless you have Improved Counterattack).

                      The second benefit is pretty sweet, but is conditional upon taking the Counterattack edge at seasoned rank. I could split that benefit off into an "Improved Wrestler" edge at Veteran rank if it seems too good, which could maybe add AP 2 to the grapple damage dealt by an opposed athletics check to simulate joint locks and other wrestling moves that bypass armor, etc.
                      Last edited by Shoggoth; 02-14-2018, 09:51 AM.

                      Comment


                      • #13
                        Originally posted by Shoggoth View Post
                        Sword and Fist
                        Requirements: Novice, Fighting d8+, Agility d8+
                        You are an expert at fighting with a lone one-handed weapon: you expertly use your free hand to grapple or unbalance your opponent, or half-sword for precise strikes into armor joints. You add +1 to Fighting rolls with a one-handed weapon as long as you are not holding a shield or a second weapon in your off-hand. In addition, when Grappling with a single hand you only suffer a -2 to Athletics rolls (rather than the usual -4).
                        This gives a conditional bonus to Fighting that is slightly less restrictive than that of Florentine (which I view to be a bit weak with how conditional it is, so you're Edge looks fine).
                        The reduced penalty for one-handed Grappling is a nice touch. It fits thematically with how I envision this Edge playing out, but leaves in the MAP so the decision is still a bit of a gamble.

                        Notice that the wording doesn't force your off-hand to be completely free, so the +1 bonus to Fighting rolls still applies if you are grappling an opponent with your off-hand, or swinging on a rope for example, allowing for some cool swashbuckling action and avoiding some book-keeping.
                        Ehhh... I'm less sure about this. The wording of the Edge is one thing, the balance is another. You probably shouldn't open the Edge to just any situation in which the character isn't wielding a second weapon.

                        Swinging on a rope doesn't bring to mind using "your free hand to grapple or unbalance your opponent." Such loose interpretation would suggest a character with the Edge could fight while eating an apple and still gain the bonus. That seems to go against the intended spirit of the Edge. Probably best to limit the bonus to situations where the free hand is actively being used to help provide the bonus. This leaves in half-swording, grappling, or whipping your cloak around, but excludes things like holding a rope, or eating an apple. It should also be combined with appropriately trapped Tricks made with the free hand.

                        Wrestler
                        Requirements: Novice, Atheltics d8+, Strength d8+
                        You add +2 to Athletics rolls to Grapple and +2 to Strength rolls to break free from a Grapple. In addition, if you have the Counterattack Edge, you may may choose to Grapple rather than make a Fighting attack when counterattacking (this suffers a -2 to the roll as usual, unless you have Improved Counterattack).

                        The second benefit is pretty sweet, but is conditional upon taking the Counterattack edge at seasoned rank. I could split that benefit off into an "Improved Wrestler" edge at Veteran rank if it seems too good, which could maybe add AP 2 to the grapple damage dealt by an opposed athletics check to simulate joint locks and other wrestling moves that bypass armor, etc.
                        This is a good Edge. The second part is pretty sweet, and I wouldn't consider it overpowered. If a character was built as a wrestler I would probably allow them to use Grapple with Counterattack just by rote. But it's good to have it down in wording.

                        Sometimes I feel the precise language of Edges, etc. get in the way of players wanting to do cool and thematically appropriate things. For example, a martial artist should probably be able to trip an opponent that tries to run past him, substituting Push: Knock Prone in lieu of the free Fighting roll.

                        Comment


                        • #14
                          [QUOTE=Deskepticon;n7087]

                          This gives a conditional bonus to Fighting that is slightly less restrictive than that of Florentine (which I view to be a bit weak with how conditional it is, so you're Edge looks fine).
                          The reduced penalty for one-handed Grappling is a nice touch. It fits thematically with how I envision this Edge playing out, but leaves in the MAP so the decision is still a bit of a gamble.
                          [\QUOTE]

                          Thanks! Glad I got that part right.

                          [QUOTE=Deskepticon;n7087]

                          Ehhh... I'm less sure about this. The wording of the Edge is one thing, the balance is another. You probably shouldn't open the Edge to just any situation in which the character isn't wielding a second weapon.

                          Swinging on a rope doesn't bring to mind using "your free hand to grapple or unbalance your opponent." Such loose interpretation would suggest a character with the Edge could fight while eating an apple and still gain the bonus. That seems to go against the intended spirit of the Edge. Probably best to limit the bonus to situations where the free hand is actively being used to help provide the bonus. This leaves in half-swording, grappling, or whipping your cloak around, but excludes things like holding a rope, or eating an apple. It should also be combined with appropriately trapped Tricks made with the free hand.
                          [\QUOTE]

                          Fair point, though I do want the edge to still apply if your free hand is grappling, since most grapples involve grasping your opponents weapon arm so they can parry, or even grabbing their blade itself (you can safely do this with the right technique, especially with leather gloves). I also don't want it to exclude the possibility of wielding your sword two-handed (as in European longsword styles where you usually guard with a two-handed grip, but still often execute one-handed strikes in combination with grapples). I could word it as:

                          "You add +1 to Fighting rolls with a one-handed weapon as long as your off-hand is free, gripping your sword two-handed, or grappling an opponent."

                          I don't mind if the edge is ever so slightly more powerful than baseline, since fighting one-handed (with say Trademark Weapon) is already much weaker than sword and board (with say Trademark Weapon) or dual wielding (with say parrying dagger and longsword or dual longswords and Two Fisted), or fighting using a reach weapon (say spear and First Strike) or with a 2-hander (say with Zadmar's patched greatsword that doesn't reduce parry and with Trademark Weapon).

                          [QUOTE=Deskepticon;n7087]

                          This is a good Edge. The second part is pretty sweet, and I wouldn't consider it overpowered. If a character was built as a wrestler I would probably allow them to use Grapple with Counterattack just by rote. But it's good to have it down in wording.

                          Sometimes I feel the precise language of Edges, etc. get in the way of players wanting to do cool and thematically appropriate things. For example, a martial artist should probably be able to trip an opponent that tries to run past him, substituting Push: Knock Prone in lieu of the free Fighting roll.
                          [\QUOTE]

                          Thanks! Glad I got it right.

                          I agree that sometimes precise wording can get in the way of doing cool stuff. I've considered modifying Counterattack to allow called shots and pushes as well, since counterattack on its own as already a bit weaker than first strike.
                          Last edited by Shoggoth; 02-15-2018, 02:17 AM. Reason: I can't fix the quote formatting for some reason

                          Comment


                          • #15
                            Here is one more Edge in this theme for consideration:

                            Duelist

                            Requirements: Seasoned, Counterattack, Agility d8+, Fighting d8+

                            When you make a Counterattack, you may attempt Called Shots (including Disarms), or you may substitute your Fighting Roll for a Push attempt (this suffers a -2 to the roll as usual, unless you have Improved Counterattack). In addition, as long as you are wielding a one-handed weapon and your off-hand is either free, gripping your weapon 2-handed, or grappling an opponent, you add +1 to your Parry.

                            Design notes: This edge captures both historical European dueling styles (and I'm sure many other cultures), as well as the cinematic brutality of Shadow of Mordor's Ranger, who fights with a longsword and often counterattacks against orcs with dismemberment, trips, and leg sweeps (Push attacks to knock Prone in Savage Worlds terms).

                            It also opens up interesting character builds: at the moment Counterattack is best for sword & shield characters due to the increased Parry making it more likely to trigger, but this edge makes it attractive for 1-handed characters, as it should be because dueling relies heavily on counterattacks.

                            At first glace here it might seem odd that Parry is still increased even when you are grappling an opponent, but it can represent using your grappled opponent as a shield against other attackers, and binding your grappled opponents weapon arm so that they can't get a good swing at you.

                            I actually suspect that at the moment this Edge is slightly on the weaker side unless paired with Improved Counterattack (Called Shots are relatively weak by RAW unless you've got a juicy bonus to attacks like the Drop) since it would be stupid to make a Disarm at -4 or a Headshot at -6. The main benefit is likely the Push attempt on a counterattack, since that can be used to knock an enemy off a ledge, trip them so you get a nice bonus to attack them on your turn, or push them away from you when they are using Frenzy or Two-Fisted to ruin the rest of their attacks. Even the Parry bonus is not all that impressive, since a conditional Parry bonus is worth half an edge (Zadmar's Savage Abilities). What I could do to make this Edge more useful is add the ability to make a Counterattack once per Turn (like First Strike) rather than one per Round (RAW Counterattack) , but this is not really in the spirit of dueling (fighting multiple opponents).

                            Also, note that at the moment this edge does not require Sword and Fist, and the Counterattack portion of this edge does not require you to have a free hand; this means that this edge is still useful for characters who want to focus on Counterattacking with other styles. However, the downside is that this might result in odd flavour consequences (my dual wielder focused on counterattacking has also gotten better at Parrying while fighting with one weapon?).
                            Last edited by Shoggoth; 02-15-2018, 02:59 AM.

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