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  • Savage Dune the write up 1.0

    Updated to version 2.0
    Last edited by savagegm; 05-01-2020, 07:29 AM.

  • #2
    Another way to access it.
    Attached Files

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    • #3
      Cool! My first impressions:

      Hindrances
      Some are listed as Minor/Major with no clear distinction between what the effects are.

      Hypno-Ligation, for example, offers no mechanical effect, relegating the Hindrance to "roleplay only." My suggestion: Minor version automatically causes Shaken when trigger-word is spoken, while the Major version Stuns.

      Kanly Vendetta is just a reflavored Enemy Hindrance. There's no need to have both of them.

      Shield Dependant should be listed as "Minor." The circumstancial condition halves the value of the -2 Parry from -2 points to -1.

      Suk Training is Major Pacifist, however you want to rephrase the description. Pacifist specifically calls out "sapient, living characters" and does not preclude non-lethal tactics. Pacifists can still set door charges, destroy vehicles, etc. just as long as they don't knowingly harm another person.

      Edges
      Imperial Conditioning: Ah, okay! In the other thread I wasn't sure what you meant by "resisting mind control," but in the context of breaking their conditioning this makes sense. I'd change the benefit to a flat +2 to opposed rolls made to violate their conditioning though. Simply increasing the Spirit die temporarily is a bit weak for Edge, and it doesn't account for attempts tied to Smarts or other attributes. I can get on board with a Suk doctor gaining a boost of adrenoline-based Strength if someone is physically forcing their hand against another.

      Imperial Suk Physician: Those are some steep requirements, but rerolling Crit Failures is pretty good. I like it.

      Mentat Awareness: Unclear on the benefit here. Seems narrative-driven, and that can lead to abuse. Suggest revising.

      Mentat Trance: So... an Edge that lets them remember things? This is a game mechanic that everyone gets by rote... recalling obscure details from last year at -6 is what I would simply rule if Joe Schmo asked, "Do I remember..." The Edge also completely ignores the "human computer" capabilities of mentats that make them so terrifying.

      P-B Conditioning: The benefits are extremely niche, as the cataleptic state also renders the person completely helpless. This feels more like an Edge tax to get the Improved version... which itself steps on the toes of Combat Reflexes and Nerves of Steel.

      P-B Martial Arts: So you just mashed two Edges (Martial Artist & Chi) together? Why? What was wrong with those Edges being separate? This decision confuses me.

      Prescience: The lack of a mechanical tie-in makes the benefit vague. Also, the distinction between being asleep or awake seems inconsequencial and ultimately confusing: Does the character roll Spirit then wait until they're asleep to receive a vision? Do they know they must sleep? If the player wants the vision NOW, but fails to get a raise, this only forces them to reroll or get frustrated with the Edge.

      School Conditioning: I'm fine with the Edge as a general inclusion into the setting. The fluff text is taking liberties with the lore though. Would be fine to just say the character has taken steps to push an attribute beyond it's normal limits. Otherwise, it seems the character now needs to specify some type of school in their background.

      Shield Fighting is far too good of an Edge; it's a no-brainer at low, low requirement of Fighting d6. Stack this with Block and Trademark Weapon and combat becomes trivial. Also, two opponents with Shield Fighting esentially negate half of each others' Edge, receiving only AP 2. This cheapens the Edge for everyone and results in less fun gameplay.

      Spice Diet ignores the fact that the spice is a highly addictive substance that kills anyone that stops taking it; no recovering from addition, you simply die. It also ignores the fact that the spice is prohibitively expensive so that only a small number of people can actually afford to purchase a personal supply. Most spice mined goes directly to the Spacing Guild and Bene Gesserit, with the dregs divided up amongst the wealthy ruling class.

      Comment


      • #4
        Several of the items i "created?" do not really have game effects, but are roleplay purposes Please note that below I am not so much defending my choices, but explaining them.
        Hypno-ligation: consider your suggestion stolen.
        Kanly Vendetta....you just reskinned. Name for flavor, but I will make a note.

        Shield Dependent. So you think this should be a Minor with a -1 to parry?

        The Suk Training description I took from my sources. I like how you describe it and plan on using it as such.

        As I expected Mentats and Bene Gesserit were the hardest things to create. Several of their abilities are merely role playing narrative things. This is the area in which Mentat Awareness falls. It is more an ability of them to see through the GM's narrative.

        As for Mentat Trance perhaps my problem is I need to explain it better and give examples. it isn't just remembering, but supernatural remembering. Yes, a person can remember that her hair was blonde. A Mentat knows the RGB values. Yes a person might be able to recall the design on silverware at a banquet they attended a year ago, a Mentat can accurately recreate it, know who designed it, and know obscure facts about the design.

        Prana-Bindu: I thought about powers, decided on edges. Originally there was not Improved Prana-Bindu....it was all one edge, but I do see that there should be a progression as the Adept gets more experience they are able to do mroe and more.

        The Weirding way.
        1) I do not want to reskin martial arts because then what do you do with people who know karate, judo, or something else? The Weirding way has to be Martial Arts Plus. I immediately thought about just re-skinning Chi. However, honestly that did not seem powerful enough. As I read Chi you are a Martial Artist and ONE time per an entire combat you get to do something special. I wanted something more. I think a Bene Gesserit is more than that. The Improved just shows improvement as the Adept continues to learn.

        One thing you pointed out was Nerves of Steel and Combat Reflexes. Honestly I brain dumped here and did not look at them. I will have to go back and see if I can make Prana-Bindu as Martial Arts + some combat edge. Do you have any suggestions.

        You also mention why one edge why not two. As it is a Bene Gesserit is looking at a skill, an Arcane Backgournd, Prana conditioning, and the weirding way. That is 3 edges. This is about the max a Novice character can do. So if you want to play as a Novice Bene Gesserit you are coming to point. Now, if we say Adepts are Seasoned characters and Novice characters are in training things get much easier.

        Prescience: Again per narrative stuff. Might be best left out and made completely narrative.

        School Conditioning. This is a late one I came up with. I kind of like the idea of a player coming up with, "Why yes, I went to the school of ATC to learn X."

        Shield Fighting: Honestly I did not consider existing combat edges was just trying to come up with something that mirrored the ability to negate the shield as I have it written (Shield as written may need re-written). Also, for requirements....I was purely just guessing. I will look at it again, but welcome all suggestions.

        Spice Diet. Thought about leaving this edge out completely and just putting it the gear description, but I decided to include. As for how the player comes up with the spice....they better be a noble (Aristocrat), a Bene Gesserit or have some other means of getting Spice. Just as I am not concerned with HOW a player got Combat Reflexes, I am unconcerned with how a player gets his Spice for this edge. That is a GM narrative decision.

        As for Spice Addiction I was going to go with Habit (Major), but this might need the clarification that when the character is incapacitated they die. I kind like some mashup with the Deadlands Alin' Hindrance where they make a Vigor roll and next session they die.


        Comment


        • #5
          Continuing...

          Skills
          The Missionaria Protectiva is not a subset of religion. It's a political tool employed by the Bene Gesserit to manipulate religions and influence societies. No one outside the Bene Gesserit should know of it.

          BG Way: This skill is redundant. Predicting someone's emotional state and determining lies/subterfuge is a use of Notice. The raise effect of this skill is better served as an Edge. Doubling as an arcane skill is a separate issue that hinges on whether or not the BG are best served by an Arcane Background.

          Mentat Computation: First, I'm confused why you chose to represent a Mentat's faculties across a host of powers, a skill, and two Edges, all of which seem to (generally) do similar things. As with the BG, there's a discussion to be had on whether mentats are best represented as an Arcane Background.

          Why is Occult is restricted skill? Is the Duniverse not a place filled with superstition and mysticism? The Bene Gesserit certainly make considerably use of Occult.

          Arcane Backgrounds
          The first critique I have here is that it introduces a number of new powers with their own specific effects. Powers in SW are based around the idea you don't need to relearn the mechanics of things with each new setting. Of the ten powers listed, only two are core powers: a renamed puppet and a weaker, limited version of boost Trait. Another power emulates Jack-of-all-Trades, but weaker.

          Secondly, the ABs each start with 3 powers, but mentats only have 2 Novice powers and BG have... none.

          After reading this section, I'm not convinced that an Arcane Background is the best way to represent these characters. It means they are only useful if they have Power Points. Truthsense is not exclusively a BG thing, and Other Memory seems to be grossly misrepresented anyway, conflating the Abomination of Alia with what Reverend Mothers experience (not to mention the entire ordeal of the Spice Agony is just brushed over).

          Comment


          • #6
            Missionaria Protectiva...I agree that this is something only a Bene Gesserit would know. This is a skill because it is the Adepts way of understanding how the the Missionaria protectiva has influenced the local religion. A successful skill check allows the Adept to see how the Missionaria Protectiva has influenced the religion. With a raise the Adept can use their knowledge to manipulate the local religion/myth just the way Lady Jessica did with the Fremen.

            I am not sure how much a simple Notice skill really picks up. Does a person with a d12 Notice approach the abilities of a Bene Gesserit Adept? I do not know. I did think that maybe the BG Way may be better served with the power Empathy.

            Occult...I see that as more along the lines of knowledge of magic, things man was not meant to know, etc. I can easily be wrong.

            Bene Gesserit and Mentats.
            The problem, as I see it, with these two is that they do things everyone does, they just do them at a far greater ability than the normal human can do. For instance the BG Adept can, through just observation, learn things about a person. Is this a simple Notice roll? If so, then is the BG just a regular person with a high Notice? The Mentat can memorize, remember, and calculate things. Is this just a really high Smarts? I chose to say no and that the Mentat abilities and the Adepts Notice are more supernatural.

            I had thought of creating the BG and Mentats as races, but could not make the numbers work. I think, given the SW system and the setting you either say BG and Mentats are just normal WC with high attributes or they need something else and the only thing that SW offers is Arcane Backgrounds.

            I am not happy with the Arcane Backgrounds nor am I happy with the Powers as written. Notice I did not even give power points. Power Ranks...per guessing. I really wanted to use Arcane Background Gifted, but 1 power just isn't enough to make a Novice character a full-fledged Adept. This is fixed if we say that a Novice character is just in training and they don't become a full-fledged Adept until they are Seasoned (more I think about it this might be the way to go.)

            As for the Powers I did my best to recreate the powers as seen in the Novel, RPG, and from Wiki site. The problem you run into here is you either use the SW powers as written and completely change Dune Universe or you have to re-write and change.

            Any suggestion you have are more than welcome

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by savagegm View Post
              Kanly Vendetta....you just reskinned. Name for flavor, but I will make a note.
              Generally, it's best not to rename Edges, Hindrances, powers, etc. since that can cause a whole lot of confusion. Anyone familiar with the source material knows that Kanly is an officially-sanctioned declaration of hostilities between two Great Houses. Anyone familiar with Savage Worlds knows that Enemy is the Hindrance that best represents that.

              But the most important thing is portrayal. How important is Kanly to the wider setting that it deserves special mention? I'd argue... none at all. "Kanly" is just a narrative term for that particular type of Enemy.

              Shield Dependent. So you think this should be a Minor with a -1 to parry?
              No.
              A -2 to Parry when fighting without an active shield is a Minor Hindrance. Each -1 Parry is worth -1 build points, for a total of -2 build points, but the penalty is also situational, reducing its impact. The character is not receiving a -2 Parry all the time (which WOULD be a Major Hindrance), they only receive it some of the time... and the player is usually in control of whether or not it applies.

              As I expected Mentats and Bene Gesserit were the hardest things to create. Several of their abilities are merely role playing narrative things. This is the area in which Mentat Awareness falls. It is more an ability of them to see through the GM's narrative.
              Yeah! There's a reason I never publicly shared my Dune conversion... it never met my expectations. A full Reverend Mother is an absolute powerhouse, and it's hard to depict the abilities of a mentat in a succinct way. So much of what they do depends on the validity of their information; bad data yields bad projections. Trying to represent that mechanically is a nightmare.

              As for Mentat Trance perhaps my problem is I need to explain it better and give examples. it isn't just remembering, but supernatural remembering. Yes, a person can remember that her hair was blonde. A Mentat knows the RGB values. Yes a person might be able to recall the design on silverware at a banquet they attended a year ago, a Mentat can accurately recreate it, know who designed it, and know obscure facts about the design.
              The value of such information is very subjective, though, and as a mechanic it caters to a very narrow style of play. A GM is going to need to care whether or not a PC has that bit of datum, and what impact it has to the story. In my gaming experience, anytime a GM tried to get that cerebral, the player's reaction was the equivalent of, "Well, then I just shoot him."

              While it's true mentats file away copious amounts of minisule data, its only function is to serve the straight-line computation. Knowing the manufacturer of the silverware doesn't matter in-and-of itself, but combined with information on a CHOAM contract to mine precious ores, and a marriage-of-convenience between two Houses Minor, a mentat can uncover a conspiracy to consolidate the market on silver and setup a virtual monopoly in their cluster of space. The Edge, therefore, shouldn't be "can the mentat recall X" but instead, "what can the mentat do with X."

              Prana-Bindu: I thought about powers, decided on edges. Originally there was not Improved Prana-Bindu....it was all one edge, but I do see that there should be a progression as the Adept gets more experience they are able to do mroe and more.
              The criticism was not that it should be more Edges... it was that what was presented was bits and pieces of other, existing Edges. A character with Imp. P-B Conditioning and Combat Reflexes is rolling +4 to recover from Shaken. There is a real discussion to be had that the BG adept should simply take Combat Reflexes and Trap it as their training. This avoids the issue of stacking bonuses.

              The Weirding way.
              1) I do not want to reskin martial arts because then what do you do with people who know karate, judo, or something else? The Weirding way has to be Martial Arts Plus.
              *puts on nerd glasses*
              This is a common misconception. A BG's hand-to-hand fighting is nothing more plain ol' martial arts. But combined with their acute control over every muscle in their body means they are exceptionally efficient at it.

              I immediately thought about just re-skinning Chi. However, honestly that did not seem powerful enough. As I read Chi you are a Martial Artist and ONE time per an entire combat you get to do something special. I wanted something more. I think a Bene Gesserit is more than that. The Improved just shows improvement as the Adept continues to learn.
              Not powerful enough?
              Either you are underestimating Chi or overestimating the Bene Gesserit. As for the limit of "once per combat" there's been some discussion of houseruling an "Improved Chi" Edge that gives you 3 Chi points, or allowing a Benny to be converted into another Chi point after your "free" one is spent.

              One thing you pointed out was Nerves of Steel and Combat Reflexes. Honestly I brain dumped here and did not look at them. I will have to go back and see if I can make Prana-Bindu as Martial Arts + some combat edge. Do you have any suggestions.
              Well, I've been peppering suggestions all throughout this response, but specifically for the Bene Gesserit, I think a lot of SWADE's existing Edges work great. Awareness, Acrobat, Brave ("I must not fear..."), Fleet Footed, Linguist, Quick, Level-Headed, Martial Artist/Warrior, Chi... Combat Reflexes, Nerves of Steel...

              There really much you can't use an existing Edge for. Voice being the notably exception. And for that I would probably create an Edge that requires the target be "registered" first by hearing him talk for a few sentences. Then it provides a +2 bonus to issue a verbal command. As a bonus, it can emulate puppet with a successful Dramatic Task.

              You also mention why one edge why not two. As it is a Bene Gesserit is looking at a skill, an Arcane Backgournd, Prana conditioning, and the weirding way. That is 3 edges. This is about the max a Novice character can do. So if you want to play as a Novice Bene Gesserit you are coming to point. Now, if we say Adepts are Seasoned characters and Novice characters are in training things get much easier.
              This doesn't explain why you created a single Edge that has the combined benefit of two core Edges. The ends do not justify the means. Wanting to allow a Reverend Mother to be a day-one character concept may not be achievable. Besides, players should never take AB (Bene Gesserit) at Novice since they gain no Novice powers.

              Why fudge balance just to make a BG adept playable at the start, but a soldier still needs to earn his grit?

              Prescience: Again per narrative stuff. Might be best left out and made completely narrative.
              Yeah, that might be best. Unless you're going for an alternate universe thing, prescience is the purview of a scant few individuals in a population of hundreds of trillions. Namely, only those adicted to spice. Guild Navigators have it to predict a safe course for ships; a handful of Reverend Mothers (those along choice breeding lines) have a weak version of the ability; Fremen have it, but lack the ability to focus it, succombing only during the Spice Orgies. The Dune Tarot is a means of focusing a Fremen's latent prescience, as Paul notes in Dune Messiah it has caused a "muddying" of the future.

              Shield Fighting: Honestly I did not consider existing combat edges was just trying to come up with something that mirrored the ability to negate the shield as I have it written (Shield as written may need re-written). Also, for requirements....I was purely just guessing. I will look at it again, but welcome all suggestions.
              I'll think it over and get back to you.

              Spice Diet. Thought about leaving this edge out completely and just putting it the gear description, but I decided to include. As for how the player comes up with the spice....they better be a noble (Aristocrat), a Bene Gesserit or have some other means of getting Spice. Just as I am not concerned with HOW a player got Combat Reflexes, I am unconcerned with how a player gets his Spice for this edge. That is a GM narrative decision.
              Fair enough. But then you are playing in an alternate version of the Duniverse, where the spice melange is as easily available as a cup of coffee, not the most precious (and expensive) commodity in the universe.
              Last edited by Deskepticon; 04-30-2020, 03:03 AM. Reason: One clarification (word "not" was omitted) and fixed a couple typos while I was here

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by savagegm View Post
                Missionaria Protectiva...I agree that this is something only a Bene Gesserit would know. This is a skill because it is the Adepts way of understanding how the the Missionaria protectiva has influenced the local religion. A successful skill check allows the Adept to see how the Missionaria Protectiva has influenced the religion. With a raise the Adept can use their knowledge to manipulate the local religion/myth just the way Lady Jessica did with the Fremen.
                Is this important to the setting? Are the characters going to need to manipulate a religion slowly over decades to help the Bene Gesserit's master plan? Because that's the function and purpose of the Missionaria Protectiva.

                I am not sure how much a simple Notice skill really picks up. Does a person with a d12 Notice approach the abilities of a Bene Gesserit Adept? I do not know. ...

                ...For instance the BG Adept can, through just observation, learn things about a person. Is this a simple Notice roll? If so, then is the BG just a regular person with a high Notice?
                Yes, it's a simple Notice roll, and Yes, a BG is just a normal person. The BG Way is a form of sensitivity training. They are trained to be always be "keyed in" to their surroundings.

                Occult...I see that as more along the lines of knowledge of magic, things man was not meant to know, etc. I can easily be wrong.
                The parameters of skills change with each setting. What passes for Science in a medieval game is not what Science represents in a modern game, and neither may represent Science set in a distant future game.

                As noted in the description for Occult: "Occult reflects knowledge and experience with the paranormal most others don’t even believe exists." Occult means something different in every setting.

                The mystique, the rumors, the superstitions that surround the BG are products of Occult. So are the ancient myths buried in humanity's past. It's why Tleilaxu masters chose to look like Greys (aliens)... it invokes something primal in the human psyche, something otherworldly and to be afraid of.

                Bene Gesserit and Mentats.
                The problem, as I see it, with these two is that they do things everyone does, they just do them at a far greater ability than the normal human can do. The Mentat can memorize, remember, and calculate things. Is this just a really high Smarts? I chose to say no and that the Mentat abilities and the Adepts Notice are more supernatural.
                Mentat training requires a high Smarts, but it not just a high Smarts itself. Mentat training requires "formatting" the brain to think in particular way. It's why it must be started early in childhood, and why the trainee cannot be told, because that type of self-awareness is counter productive to the training.

                But there's nothing supernatural to it.

                Any suggestion you have are more than welcome
                Regarding using Arcane Backgrounds... I wouldn't use them. Each AB has only five powers, meaning they only need to take the Arcane Background Edge and New Powers once to have a full repertoire. At that point, why not just consolidate what's important into four custom Edges, two for each concept?

                As noted, a lot of abilities can easily be covered by existed Edges already. Want your mentat to apply his obscure collection of facts in useful way? Jack-of-All-Trades has you covered. Want your mentat-assassin to discover and exploit an opponent's weakness? Why not pickup Feint?
                Last edited by Deskepticon; 04-30-2020, 03:09 AM. Reason: Typos fixed

                Comment


                • #9
                  Just a real quick reply before I am off to work.
                  Thank you for your information. I love it. There is a reason I wanted to post it and get other's opinion. Several I am going to use in the system I have as written and I am thinking of a re-write.
                  I was never happy with the Arcane Backgrounds, but was unsure of other ways to go.

                  In your opinion what makes a Bene Gesserit and a Mentat special, ie different from anyone else? Let me put it to you this way.
                  Let us say except for a few things, such as the Voice, you just take everything to be SW Edges as they exist. This allows a player to take the exact same edges as say an Adept or Mentat and yet not be a Mentat or an Adept. What are the Edges/Abilities that separate them from everyone else.

                  One thing I am getting more and more convinced of is that a Novice character cannot be a full-fledged Adept of Mentat, but must be someone in training and it is the Seasoned and above that reach Adept/Mentat level.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by savagegm View Post
                    Just a real quick reply before I am off to work.
                    Thank you for your information. I love it. There is a reason I wanted to post it and get other's opinion. Several I am going to use in the system I have as written and I am thinking of a re-write.
                    I was never happy with the Arcane Backgrounds, but was unsure of other ways to go.

                    In your opinion what makes a Bene Gesserit and a Mentat special, ie different from anyone else? Let me put it to you this way.
                    Let us say except for a few things, such as the Voice, you just take everything to be SW Edges as they exist. This allows a player to take the exact same edges as say an Adept or Mentat and yet not be a Mentat or an Adept. What are the Edges/Abilities that separate them from everyone else.
                    .
                    I should have thought of putting it this way before I started my work. Now off to think about.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      continuing...

                      Gear
                      The Battle Dress and Sardaukar Armor are not supported by the lore. Soldiers wore a working uniform and relied primarly on body shields for protection. I'm... fine... with including some type of hard-armor, since I can imagine it existing in some capacity, but the powered armor really gets my goat.

                      Body Shields
                      First, why is there a setting that consumes energy but confers no benefit?

                      Second, why introduce a complicated point-based system to a piece of gear nearly everyone will own? Why do you hate us so much?

                      Third, why are you using the Cover mechanics? Cover is used when a character is obscured. A shield doesn't obscure the wearer. Also, it's unclear if the Armor column gets added to the wearer or if that is the Armor value of the shield for purposes of shooting through. I'm guessing the latter.

                      And fourth, there is absolutely no reason to ever use a shield at lower than Setting 5. I think the consumption rate is supposed to read 10/min (not 1/min), which means most combats are going to chew up no more than 10 or 20 points. With a recharge rate of 30/hour, every shield is going to at or near full charge at all times. And with a item-weight of under a pound, why not carry a spare belt just in case one drains too low?

                      Lasguns
                      Damage is too low and AP is far too low. I'd stat it at 3d6 damage, AP 10. Even that might be underselling the actual capability of the weapon.

                      Why are you using weird ammo consumption figures when SWADE already has those rules stardardized. RoF 3 uses 10 charges, and RoF 9 uses... um... 80, I guess? What the heck does Rate of Fire 9 even look like? And you realise that means rolling nine dice and a Wild Die, right? SWADE maxes out at RoF 6, and I think that's a good place to stop too. It's coincidentally very lore friendly too. Rate of Fire 6 uses 50 charges, and in Heretics of Dune, Miles Teg uses a lasgun set to "maxibeam" and depletes the energy cell in two swipes. Since you've given each cell 100 charges, that lines up perfectly.

                      Stunners
                      For what it's worth, the Dune Encyclopedia is not an official source of information. Anything in it should be taken as such. It's enough to simply describe the weapon as firing projectiles slow enough to penetrate an activate shield and Stun the target.

                      Hunter-Seeker
                      Should be an Electronics roll to control a Seeker. The sliver is 5cm long, not 1cm.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by savagegm View Post
                        Just a real quick reply before I am off to work.
                        Thank you for your information. I love it.
                        Thanks! But it really is my pleasure. I've been thinking of re-visiting a Dune conversion since SWADE came out, but I just have so many other unfinished projects on my plate. Still, I'm more than happy to give advice.

                        I also want to apologize if I seem snobby. The reason is because, well... I am snobby. But Dune has been a passion of mine for over two decades and I've read the books probably about two dozen times over the years. I put my "serious face" on when I talk about it.



                        In your opinion what makes a Bene Gesserit and a Mentat special, ie different from anyone else? Let me put it to you this way.
                        Let us say except for a few things, such as the Voice, you just take everything to be SW Edges as they exist. This allows a player to take the exact same edges as say an Adept or Mentat and yet not be a Mentat or an Adept. What are the Edges/Abilities that separate them from everyone else.
                        Well, for one thing, different characters do have abilities that mirror those of a Bene Gesserit adept. Take Gurney Halleck, for instance. At first blush, he comes across as the jovial jokester, always with tune or witty phrase on hand, but very little escapes Gurney's notice. His powers of awareness and deduction rival those of Jessica's. Think of the dinner scene, where that pretty young girl was cleverly trying to seduce Paul. Jessica's internal monologue was hoping Paul could see through the ruse, which of course he had, but the reader then finds out that Gurney has seen through it as well. Not too shabby for a guy who spent half the dinner party sitting in an alcove strumming a baliset.

                        Mechanically, both Jessica and Gurney would have the Awareness Edge.

                        What sets them apart is subtlety and nuance. That's where Comprehensive Modifiers come in. If it becomes important to detect a 2° change in temperature, Jessica can make a straight Notice roll, adding her Awareness bonus, whereas Gurney might receive a -2 (cancelling his Awareness bonus). Likewise, Gurney might receive no penalty to Notice checks made for strictly military-related purposes, but Jessica takes a penalty because her training never touched on those specific topics.

                        As for custom Edges, you can guide character development along certain lines by giving the "Bene Gesserit" Edges requirements that only someone going for a BG concept would take. For example, an Edge called Metabolic Manipulation that gives immunity to poison and other "bodily balancing" feats might have Awareness and Scholar (Science) as requirements. Awareness because the BG needs to know they've ingested poison, and Scholar (Science) for the knowledge of biology and chemical compositions.

                        Alternatively, create a Bene Gesserit Trainee (Background) Edge, and use it as a prerequisite for all subsequent BG-only Edges.

                        _______

                        Mentats are the real thorn in the side as I have never found a very satisfactory way of representing them. It should probably be done through an Edge, two at most, but I just can't pin the mechanics down right. The major hiccups I run into are: 1) how to quantify data without keeping an exhaustive list, and 2) how to introduce false data into a computation and prevent the player from simply dismissing the faulty projection.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          FYI working on version 2.0 should be ready in a day or so.

                          Honestly for Gear I cheated. I just pasted from the DUNE RPG.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Well. I have now have version 2.0

                            I reworked some of my philosophy in this edition. First, I decided that a full-fledged Bene Gesserit or Mentat would have to be Seasoned, meaning a Novice is someone still in training. This greatly freed things up and allowed a lot more wiggle room without having to worry about whether it would fit a Novice character.

                            The next thing I did is I made a list, one for Bene Gesserit and one for Mentats, of their abilities. I noticed for each some were duplicates and others were not really needed. So I combined and edited.

                            The next philosophy change was the result of a question I asked myself. If a Darth Vader told a stormtrooper to guard a door and not open it and the stormtrooper knew that if he did he would die, would I allow a player to make a persuasion roll to have the stormtrooper open the door. I realized I would, if they made a raise on an opposed roll. That kind of opened my eyes. So, in this version arcane backgrounds are gone. Mentats and BG each have one skill and the rest are Edges.

                            I am still not sure about the Shield Fighting edge.
                            Voice is now and Edge that is opposed by Spirit. The question is what should the Adept roll?
                            I am not completely happy with the Mentat Calculations skill. I do not believe keeping track of data and information is FFF, but the Mentat should have the ability to deduce things. In fact, I was going to make this an Edge when I realized that the Mentat should be able to fail this due to bad data. So how do you let the Mentat deduce something, but not know they are wrong. I initially thought about opposed rolls, but couldn't figure out what the Mentat would be rolling against.

                            As for Gear, as I stated I cheated. I just followed the RPG and copy-pasted.

                            The reason I use cover for the Shields is interesting. When I first looked at the RPG they gave shields a difficulty for the opponents to hit. I quickly discarded that. Then I came back to it when I thought about using cover to represent the idea that from a ranged weapon it is so hard to hit a shield just right to get the fast moving projectile through. One thing I have noticed is that people think of Shields as completely impossible to penetrate. Not really, they are just nearly impossible not impossible.

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                            • #15
                              Well. I have now have version 2.0

                              I reworked some of my philosophy in this edition. First, I decided that a full-fledged Bene Gesserit or Mentat would have to be Seasoned, meaning a Novice is someone still in training. This greatly freed things up and allowed a lot more wiggle room without having to worry about whether it would fit a Novice character.

                              The next thing I did is I made a list, one for Bene Gesserit and one for Mentats, of their abilities. I noticed for each some were duplicates and others were not really needed. So I combined and edited.

                              The next philosophy change was the result of a question I asked myself. If a Darth Vader told a stormtrooper to guard a door and not open it and the stormtrooper knew that if he did he would die, would I allow a player to make a persuasion roll to have the stormtrooper open the door. I realized I would, if they made a raise on an opposed roll. That kind of opened my eyes. So, in this version arcane backgrounds are gone. Mentats and BG each have one skill and the rest are Edges.

                              I am still not sure about the Shield Fighting edge.
                              Voice is now and Edge that is opposed by Spirit. The question is what should the Adept roll?

                              As for Gear, as I stated I cheated. I just followed the RPG and copy-pasted.

                              The reason I use cover for the Shields is interesting. When I first looked at the RPG they gave shields a difficulty for the opponents to hit. I quickly discarded that. Then I came back to it when I thought about using cover to represent the idea that from a ranged weapon it is so hard to hit a shield just right to get the fast moving projectile through. One thing I have noticed is that people think of Shields as completely impossible to penetrate. Not really, they are just nearly impossible not impossible.
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