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  • New Armor Property

    I was kicking around a for fun design project, trying to savage a setting that has multiple tiers of the same general types of armor (light / medium / heavy).
    The traditional method is to give them bigger numbers, but that can get unwieldy - having tested a +9 armor piece, I didn't like the results.

    I was thinking about alternative protection styles and was reminded of my long-time foe, ballistic resistance. Conceptually, I like it, but the implementation has always left me with concerns. (My concern for the current version is that -4 is too good, and a -2 would do a better job of not being overpowered.)
    But this did inspire a new quality for armor, and I wanted to run it by the community.

    Reinforced Armor
    This armor has been specifically designed to withstand a common weapon type. Reduce damage from that kind of weapon by 2 before applying it to Toughness.
    Reinforced armor will specify the kind of weapon it is resistant to (arrows, firearms, blades, bludgeons, explosives, etc.).

    I was thinking that higher tier, or just heavier types, can have more resistances. So maybe a top tier light armor is Reinforced against blades, while a top tier medium is reinforced against blades and arrows, and a top tier heavy is reinforced against arrows, blades, and bludgeons.

    Thoughts?
    I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

  • #2
    The stupid question is whether SR's embedded Toughness will work. As it stands, I'm not a fan of your armor quality. It's open to too much interpretation. Are quarrels arrows? Rapiers do not include sword in their name, are they swords? Or is the intent a B/P/S paradigm. What are guns? And are other damage trappings (fire, electricity, poison, etc) possible types of protection.

    Would your system work better as a negation of AP? Not many pre-modern weapons provide AP, so I don't know how useful this would be in your setting.

    Comment


    • ValhallaGH
      ValhallaGH commented
      Editing a comment
      Making some of the armor be Toughness is much more protective than the armor should be.
      I'm choosing to ignore the other part of your post because I can't figure out a polite response.

  • #3
    I like it!

    I (personally) would use this as a replacement for Adventure Edition's Armor-stacking rules, which I had been critical of from the very beginning. I agree with the decision to keep the protection values relatively low at -2... although I could see an outlet for higher values; -4 can be reserved for materials that are guaranteed to reduce damage by one Wound... like a kevlar vest.
    The higher values would incentivise opponents to use Called Shots rather than try to 'power through' the armor.

    The rule probably needs to include a cost adjustment provision. Since we're dealing with flat numbers here, you could just make it a flat cost per resistance type added (as opposed to a percentage increase, which I cringe at the thought of). Just as a spitball figure, how's +$50 per -2 resistance sound?

    Comment


    • ValhallaGH
      ValhallaGH commented
      Editing a comment
      $50 sounds too low. $250 sounds like a better starting value.
      This isn't meant to be found on starting equipment. This is for major upgrades, high quality late game gear, and quest rewards / exploration rewards.
      Last edited by ValhallaGH; 07-08-2019, 03:09 PM.

  • #4
    See... $250 sounds high to me. A kevlar vest---which reduces bullet damage by 4 points---costs just $200. Theoretically, the effect of a kevlar vest could be achieved by using a leather jacket as the base ($80) and adding bullet protection twice ($500 at your price point).

    At $50 bucks per 2 point reduction, the sum comes to $180... so by making it $60 per type, the prices would be spot-on.

    Comment


    • #5
      So, how often can you apply the -2 of a single type to the armor (for a cumulative effect)?
      I'd probably limit it to 2x, first level costing $50, the second $250.
      If you need even better protection, you'd have to buy a better base armor...
      Please refrain from tweeting my posts or posting them on facebook. I dislike those services and would rather keep my contributions contained in this special interest forum. Thanks.

      Comment


      • #6
        Originally posted by UndeadParrot View Post
        So, how often can you apply the -2 of a single type to the armor (for a cumulative effect)?
        I'd probably limit it to 2x...
        Yeah, I wouldn't go any higher than -4 damage. Even that is pretty high as it tells the player, "this armor is guaranteed to prevent at least one Wound."

        ...first level costing $50, the second $250.
        If you need even better protection, you'd have to buy a better base armor...
        Savage Worlds prices a kevlar vest at 200, but after a bit of research I found the cheapest body armor available at 230 USD, with a majority of the manufacturers offering them at the 300-350 USD price range.

        Now, there are half a dozen ways to compare and contrast the different armors to try to glean a proper price point for the new protection mechanics proposed in this thread. My previous post used the medieval leather jacket as a base (which in hindsight was probably not the best choice). The kevlar riding jacket might make a better comparison.
        ...It has in Min Str one die lower than the kevlar vest, costs 150 more, protects the arms, but has no bullet protection.

        Now, looking at the other Swade armors, we see that individual arm protection is about half the cost of its equivalent torso protection. Applying that to the $350 riding jacket, we can rip the sleeves off for a $150 reduction (bringing us in line with the vest pricewise).
        ... Staying with the arbitrary price point of $50 per -2 damage, we can apply that to our sleeveless riding jacket twice to get a final cost of $300---which is closer to a real-world price, but at a lower Min Str than the core kevlar vest.

        This introduces an interesting concept of swapping Cost for Min Str, and vice versa. Lightweight materials could ease wearability at the expense of moolah, while going with cheaper construction would cause the armor to drag in places, increasing Min Str.
        ...So, using the example above (albeit, an extremely small sample size) we can arrive at an initial conclusion that: one die step in Min Str is equal to $100.
        ...Alternatively, we could all just agree that 200 is too low a price for a kevlar vest, and set the Protection prices at:
        $50 for the first -2 ; $50 +1 die step to Min Str for the second -2

        ______

        These are just my over-thought-out, early morning ramblings.

        Comment


        • #7
          Originally posted by Deskepticon View Post
          Savage Worlds prices a kevlar vest at 200, but after a bit of research I found the cheapest body armor available at 230 USD, with a majority of the manufacturers offering them at the 300-350 USD price range.

          ...Alternatively, we could all just agree that 200 is too low a price for a kevlar vest, and set the Protection prices at:
          $50 for the first -2 ; $50 +1 die step to Min Str for the second -2
          Assuming the government contract price is the best you'll get, M4s are around $650 and M16s about the same. Unless you want to restructure the entire economy of SWADE, go with the book prices. I would hazard a guess that they are what they are partially to facilitate a certain level of equipage for starting characters with the default $500.

          Comment


          • #8
            Originally posted by paladin2019 View Post
            Assuming the government contract price is the best you'll get, M4s are around $650 and M16s about the same. Unless you want to restructure the entire economy of SWADE, go with the book prices. I would hazard a guess that they are what they are partially to facilitate a certain level of equipage for starting characters with the default $500.
            Not sure how using an precise example of body armor to achieve pricing points for a homebrew mechanic is advocating for restructuring the entire economy of the book... but okay.

            Does this mean you prefer the first option: Increasing Min Str one die type for a $100 reduction in cost?
            The second, alternative, option is a more straight-forward pricing model that specifically affects the kevlar vest (since it uses the mechanic being proposed in this thread).

            I haven't run numbers on the other body armors yet. I admit in my post above that my analysis is based on a very small sample size, so it's subject to change. I just wanted to throw something out for people to chew on.

            Comment

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