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Aspects of Fate in Savage Worlds

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  • Deskepticon
    replied
    Originally posted by Titanhoss View Post

    Well, the reason I phrased it the way I do is the 'crunch' hindrances (take 'blind' for example) always have an effect... you wouldn't get 'more blind' by invoking... if that makes any sense...
    or 'Lame'... you wouldn't get 'more lame' with an invoke...
    True, but that's what the extra build points are for... to balance back the 'crunch' Hindrances so that both they and the RP Hindrances are at fairly equal starting points. The extra points make the 'crunch' Hindrance a net-0 affair, in much the same way taking an RP Hindrance earns you no extra points (under your proposal, that is).

    Invoking a crunch H. would be adding an additional effect not already covered by its text. So a Lame character might accidentally bump a table knocking over a lamp, which turns some of room into a SBT fire hazard for his allies. In return, he might say this has caused his foe to become distracted and adds a bonus to his Fighting roll. He doesn't become "more lame", but his lameness has resulted in an additional drawback.

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  • Titanhoss
    replied
    Originally posted by Zadmar View Post
    So "crunch" Hindrances would give you a mechanical penalty, and "RP" Hindrances would give you free Bennies?

    How about: You only gain build points from "crunch" Hindrances, but you can invoke any Hindrance to earn Bennies.

    In fact that's pretty much how I handle it in my system (I described how it could be applied to Savage Worlds in this post) and it works really well.
    Well, the reason I phrased it the way I do is the 'crunch' hindrances (take 'blind' for example) always have an effect... you wouldn't get 'more blind' by invoking... if that makes any sense...
    or 'Lame'... you wouldn't get 'more lame' with an invoke...
    where as the 'RP' Hindrances, like 'Curious' can be invoked at proper dramatic times... GM or Player could invoke the 'RP' hindrances to earn a bennie... it makes for a controllable bennie flow, if the GM isn't giving them out as freely as could be... more of a framework that 'The GM should award bennies for good RP'... It has the players more involved in the bennie flow, and in keeping how their character would be using their flaws... instead of taking them at character creation, then more or less forgetting them the majority of the time...

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  • Zadmar
    replied
    Originally posted by Titanhoss View Post
    my spin would be replacing the 'non crunch' hindrances with Aspects/Flaws... pared down to the simplest... Regular 'crunch' hindrances are always on, and work as written, giving you the build points at character creation... the 'RP' hindrances like Mean, Curious, ETC become aspects... if you invoke them, or they get compelled you get a bennie... You don't have to pay a bennie to avoid an invoke, simply not gaining a bennie is it's own cost...
    So "crunch" Hindrances would give you a mechanical penalty, and "RP" Hindrances would give you free Bennies?

    How about: You only gain build points from "crunch" Hindrances, but you can invoke any Hindrance to earn Bennies.

    In fact that's pretty much how I handle it in my system (I described how it could be applied to Savage Worlds in this post) and it works really well.

    Leave a comment:


  • Titanhoss
    replied
    I've been recently toying with this idea myself... my spin would be replacing the 'non crunch' hindrances with Aspects/Flaws... pared down to the simplest... Regular 'crunch' hindrances are always on, and work as written, giving you the build points at character creation... the 'RP' hindrances like Mean, Curious, ETC become aspects... if you invoke them, or they get compelled you get a bennie... You don't have to pay a bennie to avoid an invoke, simply not gaining a bennie is it's own cost... It just codifies 'getting bennies for good roleplaying' to a point where a GM doesn't have to memorize every RP hindrance each player has.

    I'm planning to incorporate this with 'Joker's Wild' and let the 'Flaws' generate the Bennie flow. You get to add the RP benefits of Aspects, with the minimal impact on RAW.

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  • scifirabbi
    replied
    Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
    This is an idea that has come up several times before.
    http://archive.pegforum.com/viewtopi...325853#p325853
    http://archive.pegforum.com/viewtopi...303897#p303897
    http://archive.pegforum.com/viewtopi...384304#p384304
    http://archive.pegforum.com/viewtopi...220318#p220318

    I'll note that most Edges aren't Aspect equivalent - they're closer to Stunts in FATE. Cool special abilities that you can use at no cost. Admittedly, Edges can generally be used continuously and Stunts cannot, but I hope you see my point.


    The effect, I think, will be to make bennies a lot more powerful (able to grant +2 to any roll at any time).
    You'll also have some odd situations where a character (PC and NPC) does something both out of character and self destructive because of an invoked aspect (and they didn't have a benny to buy that off); something in keeping with the Aspect but not with the character's personality, history, current goals, or best interests.

    Probably some other stuff, but that's what I see.
    Thanks for the feedback. Like I said, I am trying to incorporate Aspects without messing too much with the regular SW system. So, yes, in mechanical terms Edges are closer to Stunts but I think they can easily pull double duty as aspects. the way i see it feats, edges, hindrances, merits and flaws etc. are ways in which you mechanically describe elements of your character in most games and, in character creation, aspects do the same thing. When you pick the Alertness edge it could also be described as "Nothing gets past my keen senses". Fleet footed can be described as "Fast on my feet". Scholar could be "information is the most important thing." Hindrances are the same. Mean could be "I'm not mean, you're just stupid!" Elderly could be "Old as dirt". etc. It's not perfect but it works without having to add too many aspects on top of what you already have as a SW character.

    Yes, bennies will be more powerful and able to be used for more things. That works for me

    As for the question of having a character do something self-destructive or out of character because of a compel, fair point. But I think a lot of that depends on the group. A group with a lot of trust that likes narrative style play will do this well, but doesn't work for everyone. Also i agree that there is an issue with having to spend a fate point/bennie to not do a compel and probably wouldn't do that ie I would allow people to just say no to compel!

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  • ValhallaGH
    replied
    This is an idea that has come up several times before.
    http://archive.pegforum.com/viewtopi...325853#p325853
    http://archive.pegforum.com/viewtopi...303897#p303897
    http://archive.pegforum.com/viewtopi...384304#p384304
    http://archive.pegforum.com/viewtopi...220318#p220318

    I'll note that most Edges aren't Aspect equivalent - they're closer to Stunts in FATE. Cool special abilities that you can use at no cost. Admittedly, Edges can generally be used continuously and Stunts cannot, but I hope you see my point.

    Thinking about including Aspects into a future SW game and here's where I'm at. Would like some feedback:

    - Create character as normal for SW (attributes, skills, edges and hindrances etc.)
    - Add a High Concept Aspect - A general description of the character concept e.g. Lonely Time traveler in a Blue Box, Suave British Super spy, Adventuring archaeological professor, etc
    - Treat Edges and hindrances as aspects and have players write appropriate aspects to accompany them so they have their regular benefits or penalties but also have an aspect description
    - Bennies can be used as normal but can also be used to invoke aspects like Fate points and can be regained liked fate points
    - GM would add aspects to regular SW adversaries and scenes so they can be invoked by players

    Thoughts?
    The effect, I think, will be to make bennies a lot more powerful (able to grant +2 to any roll at any time).
    You'll also have some odd situations where a character (PC and NPC) does something both out of character and self destructive because of an invoked aspect (and they didn't have a benny to buy that off); something in keeping with the Aspect but not with the character's personality, history, current goals, or best interests.

    Probably some other stuff, but that's what I see.

    Leave a comment:

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