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Taunt/Intimidation: Kill'em Off?

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  • #16
    Rule of three:

    Persuasion: Trying to change someone's mind. Includes diplomacy, lying, blackmailing, etc.

    Streetwise: Getting information and stuff.

    Compel: The ability to use someone's flight/fight responsable to your advantage. It is the ability to influence someone's on the very short term. Making him fall on love with you, or run away in fear. It's about making him lose his temper at the worst moment (for him) or getting him to spill the beans.

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    • #17
      Letting aside the whole Trick / ToW part, I think the standard system should keep the most iconic skills. When my players want to attempt something in game, the 1st think they have to watch is the Skill List. This is a very good start from where they should take inspiration for the action in the game. "Ehi, I want to intimidate that man", "Ehi, I want to persuade her", etc.
      The mechanics that starts from "nowhere" should be kept to a bare minimum. I always treated the Attributes as "skill limiters" and as "passive save rolls". Also, I feel that all the count on pure Attributes should be some kind of "poor cousins" of the hard earned skills: for example, Common Knowledge vs. Specific Knowledges, Tricks vs. ToWs (well, actually tricks are perceived as better actions compared to ToWs, at least at my tables), Push/Disarm vs. some kind of better combat technique based on Skill+Edge etc.
      If the aim is to compress the skill list, well they could take the "Fate Way". Actually the Fate Core skill list is pretty similar to Savage Worlds: they have "Provoke" that do exactly that (and it's more the character's attitude that make the player choosing if they are "intimidating" or "taunting" the target).
      "Balance is the key, Trapping is the word." - - Lord Lance


      Proud reviser of the SAVAGE FREE BESTIARY

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      • #18
        To be honest, I don't see the problem with keeping the skills and Edges as they currently exist. And to help make my case, I'm going to borrow what little I know of the Flash Gordon setting. In reference to Tricks...

        "Agility, Strength, and related skills can be used to unbalance or distract an opponent and make him vulnerable."

        I got that snippet from another forum post. And I can see the merits here. A skill can be higher than the linked attribute and be used in the attributes place. And, at the cost of being a more limited maneuver in scope, this might grant a special modifier to the Trick. A "trick shot" with a gun or bow, for example. So, maybe someone will still take Acrobat because that +2 is darn tempting. Or maybe they'll just focus on Shooting, or Fighting, or Thievery if they want to rely on sleight-of-hand.

        So, as far as I'm concerned, Taunt and Intimidate can stay. If someone wants them, I say let them.

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        • Shoggoth
          Shoggoth commented
          Editing a comment
          @Juonichi Actually, since Persuasion can be used for ToW now, a good Charisma is better to invest in, and has a higher ceiling.

        • Jounichi
          Jounichi commented
          Editing a comment
          @Shoggoth
          That remains also to be seen. Strong Willed is still the only means of granting +2 to resist Test of Will. And stacking Charisma might also be too easy a way to game the system. By RAW, I could also use Streetwise instead of Persuasion. But good luck explaining how my being good at gathering information lets me initiate a Test of Will. Remember, we have to describe the action and then make the roll as required by the GM. And there's no telling yet if we won't need another Edge to add Charisma to Persuasion Tests of Will. Given the number of settings which already do have Persuasion-related ToW Edges, I wouldn't be surprised if we get such a tweak.

        • Deskepticon
          Deskepticon commented
          Editing a comment
          Shoggoth Charisma is not always a guaranteed bonus or guaranteed penalty... or at least it shouldn't be; it should be interpretive. For example, a Mean character could instead gain a +2 bonus to Taunts, instead of a -2 penalty. Likewise, a Noble might not gain their Charisma bonus when dealing with a peasant uprising.

          When it comes to ToW actions, the player should argue why the Charisma bonus would be applicable. Keeping that as a general rule if thumb goes a long way toward preventing "gaming the system".

      • #19
        Maybe a little late to the party, but I didn't want to start a new thread.

        I do find the two skills a bit lackluster after Flash Gordon, so I have thought about modifying them slightly for my Hellfrost game:

        Taunt is replaced by the Insight skill. Insight is used to "read" people, including emotions and body language (and maybe also feel supernatural presences). This is something I would like to separate from the Notice skill anyway, so I thought this would be a good fit. The usefulness in interrogations is obvious, also the GM could roll the subject's Persuasion against the interrogator's Insight to see if a lie is spotted. It can still be used to taunt enemies as a ToW.

        For Intimidation, I first thought it would be a good idea to make Rebel Yell/War Cry a base combat maneuver. But I'm not really sure what these are supposed to do now. Making all characters in a large burst template Distracted seems a bit too powerful now. I'm now toying with making the Reputation Edge from DL baseline: Negative Charisma is treated as a positive bonus for Intimidation rolls. This fits very well I think.

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        • #20
          Ideas:

          Taunt
          Success: -2 on trait rolls not against you, You have +2 on trait rolls against it.
          Raise: As above but 4

          Intimidate:
          Success: Shaken
          Raise: Stun (old shaken)

          I think both of these deserve to be stronger than tricks/test-of-wills because they require skill points.

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          • #21
            I think I would just make them Edges that give +2 and stack with Strong Will.

            I am sure by the time Black comes they will have it figured out.

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