Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

[SPC 3] Power Down/Concentration

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • [SPC 3] Power Down/Concentration

    I feel like a lot of streamlining of the previous edition has been lost. Let's take Shape Change for example. Now you require a skill roll to activate the power (not thrilled about it but whatever) AND you must make concentration rolls each time you become Shaken, Wounded, etc.

    First of all, this is too much rolling and makes it really not fun to use. You would even be better off using the AB: Gifted rules from SWADE. This does not require concentration, just power points. Powering down when you lose consciousness or when maybe you are Stunned is fine, but not every time you are Shaken or Wounded.

    Secondly, rolling Smarts for concentration. Concentration should use Focus (or the skill you use with the Alternate Trait mod). When you are e.g. Shape Changed with the Primal mod, you nearly always have Smarts d4. So good luck succeeding on your Smarts roll.

    I get that you probably want some mechanic to disable someones power, but I don't think that the current iteration of the concentration mechanic is the way to go as it just makes games un-fun if you (or a villain) is prematurely forced to disable their powers. Imaging that the boss is someone who turns into a fierce dragon. If you manage to make them Distracted and Shaken, they make a concentration roll at -2, likely not succeeding. So the boss transforms back from a dragon into a tiny clerk or whatever. That is hardly an epic encounter. It should still be possible to knock them out of dragon form, but it should require more setup and effort than just making them Shaken and getting lucky. Maybe a power stunt?

  • #2
    Yeah, it requiring a smarts roll does screw over low smart characters. Like imagine Beast Boy getting punched back into child form in every fight.

    Comment


    • #3
      I on the other hand do love the Power down modification. I wouldn´t want it to change that drastically. Shaken and wounded is a good cause to loose concentration and require a roll to maintain it.
      Perhaps change the Smart roll to a Focus roll.

      Comment


      • enmel
        enmel commented
        Editing a comment
        Mmm... Would be nice to have its as generic modificator

    • #4
      I agree with Mooge. It shouldn't be a drastic change as this would be type of thing that becomes a pivotal moment in the encounter when players may be able to take down the shape-changed dragon that otherwise is impossible to beat.

      It shouldn't be Smarts based though. Spirit or preferably Focus would be my assertion as well. Or maybe add a modifier that makes it Smarts-based at a discount while otherwise its Spirit or Focus.

      Comment


      • Tumola
        Tumola commented
        Editing a comment
        Then let at least characters spend a benny to automatically succeed at a concentration check, similar to recovery from Shaken.

      • DuncanM
        DuncanM commented
        Editing a comment
        Focus makes the most sense. Every character has access to Focus and can make use of it without needing to take more powers, but it can also be enhanced by powers. It does mean that characters that benefit greatly from Focus will have a slight edge, but I don’t see how that’s different from making it a Smarts roll. Feels extremely arbitrary at the moment.

      • enmel
        enmel commented
        Editing a comment
        Even losing the change with an attack from/on weakness would be great.

    • #5
      I do agree that I think this mechanic sort of blows.
      Reminds me of 5e Dnd Concentration, which is one thing I hated in that system.

      Comment


      • #6
        I like that Shape change can be broken if you are shaken and find it fits with every comic book example I can think of shape changers, who have been disrupted.

        But I agree, Smarts is not the right trait. I would think it should be Spirit (will power) or Focus (skill in the power). Attributes are normally used defensively so this means it should be Spirit and that is where I will end up house ruling it.

        Comment


        • Tumola
          Tumola commented
          Editing a comment
          I'm fine with the fact that Shape Change can be broken. It just should not be that easy. Or you should be able to prevent it by spending a benny or something, so that you don't drop out of form in a critical moment.

        • Ndreare
          Ndreare commented
          Editing a comment
          In my experience for powerful characters a Attribute roll -2 is only a benny sinker. Usually 0 to 1 benny.

          With a d4 you have a 32% chance of success
          With a d6 you have a 31% chance of success (strange -2 thing where the die bellow is 1% better)
          With a d8 you have a 48% chance of success
          With a d10 you have a 58% chance of success
          With a d12 you have a 65% chance of success
          With a d12+1 you have a 78% chance of success
          With a d12+2 you have a 88% chance of success
          With a d12+3 you have a 94% chance of success
          With a d12+4 or higher you have a 99% chance of success

      • #7
        You could house rule to remove the disruption rule or make a +2 modifier that the power is persistent and functions even while shaken, stunned or unconscious.

        Comment


        • Tumola
          Tumola commented
          Editing a comment
          A modifier like that would also be good. Maybe even a general mod that applies to all powers with power down? In settings that have concentration/disruption, there is also usually an Edge which enhances your concentration roll.

        • Ndreare
          Ndreare commented
          Editing a comment
          I also like the idea of an Edge. Perhaps one that either give you a reroll, or one that give you a +2, which would drastically increase your odds of success.

      • #8
        It reminds me a bit of the old Shaken rules, which were clumsy and unfun and were wisely changed to be more streamlined. Anything that disrupts or slows combat has to be fun and interesting. Getting disrupted by something minor and having to sacrifice a turn getting back to full power isn’t fun, which is why they changed the old Shaken rules.

        Comment


        • Mogge
          Mogge commented
          Editing a comment
          I dont think it reminds it of the old shaken rule at all. This is most likely a balancing factor as well as making a rule of those comics where you actually see superheroes loose their power due to lack of concentration, damage or the likes.

          I think this is a great addition and only needs minor tweaks. That is to make the concentration roll either Spirit or Focus.

        • Tumola
          Tumola commented
          Editing a comment
          Its OK as a balancing factor. I just think the concentration rule is more fitting for a sorcerer or something. It's not at all how I imagine supers. If the mechanic is for balancing, make a +2 mod that eliminates it.

      • #9
        I totally agree that it should be possible to knock someone out of shape change form. But that should be something that happens only in special situations where it is dramatically appropriate and not as a general strategy that you can use in every combat. A concentration mechanic does not feel right to me for super powers. I'm currently thinking the following:

        Make it a power stunt that allows to power down any power when you make someone Shaken or Wounded. That would work against any active power and works without an opponent's roll. I can imagine even someone like Colossus getting punched so effective that his armor powers down.

        This would give you more control over when someone has their powers power down, but at the same time it will not happen every time (especially not against non-powered thugs) and has to be used tactically.

        Comment


        • ValhallaGH
          ValhallaGH commented
          Editing a comment
          That sounds like a Power Stunt for Negation, not a general mechanic related to damage.

        • Tumola
          Tumola commented
          Editing a comment
          It should not negate any power. It should just turn off an active power, so that it has to be turned on again. This may not work on any active power, so as always the GM should be the judge of when exactly it can be used. But it feels appropriate that the victim should at least be Shaken or Wounded.

      • #10
        I think the crux of the issue is this: Should Power Down be:
        A: The default rule, as it is now;
        B: A Power Stunt that you can use to force eligible Powers to shut off;
        C: A Setting Rule (I'd put in into a Zero To Hero or Horror Comic campaign in a heartbeat, but it doesn't seem to fit the Cosmic Comic setting at all); or
        D: Simply a Limitation a player can slap on any Activated Power that would otherwise just run while conscious?

        I greatly prefer C+D, personally; the default setting rule would simply have Power Down taken as a Limitation on some Powers, while as a Setting Rule, those same eligible Powers ALWAYS come with Power Down.

        Comment


        • Tumola
          Tumola commented
          Editing a comment
          I'm beginning to like option C. I realize that there are some settings where concentration rules may be appropriate.

        • Ndreare
          Ndreare commented
          Editing a comment
          I really like it as a default rule. I feel it fits the general Comic book assumptions and my experience in comics.

        • enmel
          enmel commented
          Editing a comment
          Yeah, the default rule is nice, but we need a way to bypass power down. So a limitation could be that way for active powers, making power down optional. Like tony stark power down on core damage. Some heroes dont have that vulnerability
          Last edited by enmel; 10-25-2021, 10:52 PM.

      • #11
        Originally posted by Freemage View Post
        I think the crux of the issue is this: Should Power Down be:
        A: The default rule, as it is now;
        B: A Power Stunt that you can use to force eligible Powers to shut off;
        C: A Setting Rule (I'd put in into a Zero To Hero or Horror Comic campaign in a heartbeat, but it doesn't seem to fit the Cosmic Comic setting at all); or
        D: Simply a Limitation a player can slap on any Activated Power that would otherwise just run while conscious?

        I greatly prefer C+D, personally; the default setting rule would simply have Power Down taken as a Limitation on some Powers, while as a Setting Rule, those same eligible Powers ALWAYS come with Power Down.
        I 100% think that D would be a great fit.

        Comment

        Working...
        X