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What's the point in Pushing?

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  • #16
    I can't remember. Is there an edge that let's you perform Fighting Tests on multiple targets with one action? If not an edge based solution might work.

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    • ValhallaGH
      ValhallaGH commented
      Editing a comment
      Not in the core rules. Possibly in a setting book, but those are GM discretion outside of the specific setting.

  • #17
    Originally posted by ZenFox42 View Post
    Deskepticon - for a single opponent, spending a Benny is reasonable. But in TV fights, it's often 4-6 mooks against the hero, and the Bennies would run out too quickly.
    Oh, okay! So you want to be able to
    a) affect multiple targets with one action, and
    b) prevent them from re-engaging too easily.

    This sounds more like Edge territory than simple rules tweaks. Just write up an Edge that expands Push in the way you need it to.

    That said, you can still use the single Benny approach for lesser effects. For example, instead of Pushing a guy into a pile of boxes, you can Push him into a crowd of mooks and ask the GM if they can all make Athletics checks or fall Prone. It won't prevent them from standing back up next turn, but if you shove the target and then move in the opposite direction, it can buy you some time.

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    • #18
      I don't know the rules as well as these guys do, but I really like this as a simple test when against one Extra, with an edge allowing it to affect multiple extras in a group.
      Last edited by broxen; 07-16-2021, 07:53 PM. Reason: I have fat fingers

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      • #19
        An Edge, hmmm? How about :

        Get Away From Me!
        (Novice, Strength d8+, Fighting d8+)
        The character can make a single Fighting attack at -2 against all adjacent opponents' Parry, and if successful pushes the opponent 7" away. On a Raise, they fall Prone.

        I hadn't originally thought of one action affecting multiple opponents, but once I had (thanks, Deskepticon!), I used Sweep as a template.
        Savage Summaries-RAW, with added info from Clint:Combat Actions,Cover,Healing,Using Powers,Grappling,Chases (all SWD)
        Also:Persuasion (SWADE),Better Bosses (SWADE),Handling Illusions (SWADE), Better Combat Rating (system independent)
        And:historical tech levels,generic SW sci-fi tech levels (both system indepdent)

        Comment


        • ValhallaGH
          ValhallaGH commented
          Editing a comment
          With this Edge a house cat can push multiple dragons fourteen yards. That seems like a problem.
          Also, if the choice is between this and Sweep then I will take Sweep every single time.

        • Corax
          Corax commented
          Editing a comment
          Ah, I think I've seen that in action:
          https://youtu.be/VkIoFgFhTlo?t=204

          Besides the issue with size, appropriatness of "pushing" someone 14 meters (!!!) is very setting dependend.

      • #20
        Originally posted by ZenFox42 View Post
        An Edge, hmmm? How about :

        Get Away From Me!
        (Novice, Strength d8+, Fighting d8+)
        The character can make a single Fighting attack at -2 against all adjacent opponents' Parry, and if successful pushes the opponent 7" away. On a Raise, they fall Prone.
        This seems ok, but I'd make it a Test using the Fighting skill, since the objective is not to do any damage. On success they may be Distracted or Vulnerable as they are shoved off balance. On a raise Shaken and fall prone.

        And for me, 7" is probably too far. I understand the objective is to prevent them from reengaging, but to push a group of Extras 35+ feet with only a d8 seems challenging. I'd follow the rules for Push and simply do 1" or 2" with a raise, combined with the effects above.

        Since it seems like the largest utility is vs Gang Up bonus and that seems pretty great, I'd consider making it Seasoned or maybe even Veteran.

        That would read something like:

        Bowling With Extras ​​​​​​
        (Seasoned, Strength d8+, Fighting d8+)
        The character may make a Test using the Fighting skill to push all adjacent foes. If successful, they are pushed back 1" and become Distracted or Vulnerable, per the rules for Tests. On a raise, they are pushed 2", become Shaken, and fall prone.


        The objective being to impair adjacent foes with -2 (Distracted) on success, and severely hamper foes on a raise (shaken, prone, etc)

        This would be highly effective against extras and negate their gang up bonuses, but not so great against wild cards. But if you're being ganged up on by WC's you need to have a talk with your GM
        Last edited by broxen; 07-17-2021, 04:57 PM. Reason: Formatting

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        • Doctor Crunch
          Doctor Crunch commented
          Editing a comment
          I might limit it to size +1 so that you're not pushing around grizzlies and chargers, but yeah I think making it relative to character size is a good call.

        • Deskepticon
          Deskepticon commented
          Editing a comment
          Is it me, or is this Edge worded backwards?
          I mean, it basically just combines a Push and Test into one MAP-less action, but why use the Test as the defining mechanic? If you call it a Push that can affect multiple targets and cause Distracted or Vulnerable, the limitations based on Size are already implied. They're already in the Push rules.

        • ZenFox42
          ZenFox42 commented
          Editing a comment
          Broxen - thanks for the idea! I'd also go for "opponents up to the attacker's size + 1".

          Deskepticon - another difference between the above and Push is that the above uses a Fighting roll, whereas Push uses Strength or Athletics. Since Fighting is likely to be better than Strength or Athletics, I'd prefer it. Also, since opposed rolls are generally harder to succeed at than rolls vs. a TN (depending on the TN), I'm glad there's no penalty to the Fighting roll. Finally, there's no secondary Athletics roll for going Prone, it just happens automatically on a Raise, another thing I like.

      • #21
        Would it be simpler for a Wuxia or Martial Arts setting to just do a trapping for Havok with a range limitation?

        Comment


        • Doctor Crunch
          Doctor Crunch commented
          Editing a comment
          Depending on how extra the setting is, I could see a Spinning Back Fist trapping for Havok with selective and limited to centered on the caster only.

        • broxen
          broxen commented
          Editing a comment
          I think for Wuxia this would work really well.

          But in my opinion 2d6 distance may feel a bit too much for a more reality based martial arts setting.

          Somewhat adjacent to this, and depending on the tone of your setting, you could also do a setting rule to emulate how a group of mooks will avoid attacking all at once. TV Tropes calls this Mook Chivalry. It could basically eliminate the gang up bonus setting wide and may make the Edge in this post less useful (but still narratively fun!)

        • ValhallaGH
          ValhallaGH commented
          Editing a comment
          broxen If you're using powers then realism has already been shot and buried in a shallow grave in the wilderness.
          Martial arts settings stop being reality based at the level of Bloodsport (including the 'tournament rules' to exclude firearms). Anything more over the top is blatantly fictional, no matter how serious or matter-of-fact the characters may be.

          Other film tropes are beyond the scope of this thread.
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