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RE: Dodge vs. Pistol in Melee

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  • RE: Dodge vs. Pistol in Melee

    https://www.pegforum.com/forum/savag...istol-in-melee

    This answer changes so much.

  • #2
    What do you mean?
    Do you have a link to a different answer?

    I admit, it's not quite how I would have ruled in that situation, but now that I read the official response, it makes sense.

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    • #3
      What does it change? I've always played it that way.
      Like what you have read in someone's post? Hit that like button and let everyone know.

      I run Deadlands Reloaded. One of my players writes an incharacter blog here --> http://ballgownsandbattleskirts.blog...deadlands.html

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      • #4
        I have played it that way as well. Some characters have a high Parry so get closer to the pistol or other firearm. Others get farther and hope Dodge or cover help. Edges are pretty clear on what they do and do not do by wording.

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        • #5
          Defining ranged attacks made at melee range as melee attacks. That changes everything.

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          • #6
            Changes everything is a very sweeping statement. Not sure I follow the logic. While not explicitly stated an attack that targets parry being a melee attack is completely logical. Not blindly obvious and could have done with a explicit mention but completely logical. I'd even go so far to say I like it that way.

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            • #7
              It negates Dodge when shooting someone at melee range. It also goes against previous guidance that all Fighting attacks are melee attacks and all Shooting and Athletics (Throwing) attacks are ranged attacks. It was a bit surprising.

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              • #8
                It's not a change, though. The rulebook (page 104) clearly states that ranged weapons used when engaged in melee use the TN of the targets Parry. And by using Parry we know what Edges affect the TN - those that affect Parry.
                Like what you have read in someone's post? Hit that like button and let everyone know.

                I run Deadlands Reloaded. One of my players writes an incharacter blog here --> http://ballgownsandbattleskirts.blog...deadlands.html

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by lunchmoney View Post
                  It's not a change, though. The rulebook (page 104) clearly states that ranged weapons used when engaged in melee use the TN of the targets Parry. And by using Parry we know what Edges affect the TN - those that affect Parry.
                  Except Dodge affects the Attack Roll, not the TN. So your test doesn't answer the question.

                  I think most of us, at least in this thread, play it as "No" for allowing Dodge against a ranged weapon in melee (RWIM). I don't think any of us could point to a clear reason why, other than a nebulous "because you're in melee.". So the end result of Clint's ruling agreeing with that isn't surprising.

                  What is surprising is the answer it effectively redefines what type of attack RWIM is, at least in most of our minds. I think most of us interpreted as it still being a Ranged Attack still, but with an exception of using Parry instead of a flat TN 4. I don't think "any attack against Parry is a melee attack" is the rule explanation most of us would have thought of, as it's a rather nuanced reading, but makes sense in hindsight.

                  Really, ignoring the TN of Parry as the defining factor, he could have simply said "any attack against a target you are in melee with are melee attacks" and we would have bought it.

                  Interestingly, this ruling means no other ranged weapon Edges (that I could see) are affected by being in Melee. You could still use Marksman to shoot someone in the leg in melee if you wanted. You can Double-tap or Rapid Fire, with the only penalty being the (possibly) higher TN of Parry.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by paladin2019 View Post
                    It negates Dodge when shooting someone at melee range. It also goes against previous guidance that all Fighting attacks are melee attacks and all Shooting and Athletics (Throwing) attacks are ranged attacks. It was a bit surprising.
                    Maybe consider the recent answer to be errata then.
                    One thing the ruling does is maintain the Block/Dodge dichotomy so that they can never stack. That's nice for balancing Edge-relationships.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Oneiros View Post
                      I don't think <whatever> is the rule explanation most of us would have thought of, as it's a rather nuanced reading, but makes sense in hindsight.
                      This right here, sums up my entire experience with SW. Don't get me wrong, as a system I love it (I don't play any other system any more), but to use the rules correctly, you have to take them quite literally and understand all the cross-referenced nuances that are implied.

                      Savage Summaries-RAW, with added info from Clint:Combat Actions,Cover,Healing,Using Powers,Grappling,Chases (all SWD)
                      Also:Persuasion (SWADE),Better Bosses (SWADE),Better Combat Rating (system independent)
                      And:historical tech levels,generic SW sci-fi tech levels (both system indepdent)

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                      • Deskepticon
                        Deskepticon commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Same. It took me years to fully grok the intricacies of Deluxe Edition, then Adventure Edition dropped and I had to start all over again.

                      • ZenFox42
                        ZenFox42 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I'm right there with you. Because of all the fiddly little changes they made, many of the rules that existed in SWD are still in SWADE, but the details are different. Bother!

                    • #12
                      By virtue of the pistol being an exception to the rules for ranged weapons being usable in melee and therefore going against the TN of Parry, it doesn’t seem odd that it therefore makes it a melee attack. Regardless, a guy dodging a point blank shot is also inconceivable, so I agree with the ruling’s outcome anyway.

                      Comment


                      • Deskepticon
                        Deskepticon commented
                        Editing a comment
                        This.
                        Plus the concept of pitting an attack against a target's Parry implies they are NOT dodging but rather attempting to bat the pistol away.

                      • paladin2019
                        paladin2019 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        "a guy dodging a point blank shot is also inconceivable,"
                        Dodging a bullet is inconceivable, yet the game allows it. Dodging the shooter's aim when you can see is is more likely and being close enough to see where their aiming is more likely at melee range.
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