Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Group Rolls HR - Opinions from wise minds sought!

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Group Rolls HR - Opinions from wise minds sought!

    Greetings fellow Wild Cards.
    I am looking for opinions regarding thoughts about a SWADE house rule.
    It is of course not implemented, because I am very careful to tangle with rules without first thinking properly about it.
    I am also, to be fair, not very smart, nor very wise.
    This is me thinking about if a house rule like this could work, and I would be happy to hear what you think and what you would change if you would attempt to implement something similar =)

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The purpose of this draft rule is to speed up a scenario where there are several group of EXTRAS involved in a confrontation, and the GM still want to make it a regular combat scenario without using Mass Battle / Quick Encounter rules presented in the Core SWADE Book [Note: that I still appreciate those rules very much]

    The GM bundle EXTRAS in groups whom act at the same time.
    The Extras have the same gear and traits.
    In this example, one group is 5 extras.
    Attack Trait [D6] - 2D6 dmg.

    Instead of rolling 5xD6 rolls as these Extras attack one target, the GM make one roll instead and adds +1 for every Extra involved in the attack.
    The roll is thus: D6+5.

    If at least one hits, the GM rolls one damage roll, and adds +1 for every Extra involved, d6 for a raise and a bonus +1 for every raise [up to the number of Extras].

    EXAMPLE
    Dredd spins around and draws his Lawbringer as six criminal scum rounds the corner and fires their slugpistols at him.
    The GM makes one roll: D6 + 6 [the number of scum] -> resulting in: 11 [5+6].
    Dredd is hit and takes 2d6 + 6 [the number of scum] + d6 [raise] + 1 [bonus raise dmg].
    The result is 19 dmg.

    [Dredd ofcourse, shrugs of the shots with a soak roll, tough as the law itself, and proceeds with judgment time].

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I would love reading your feedback, and note once more, this is more of a curios a pondering rather than a fully presentable house rule =)

    Thank you for your time
    / Mithras







  • #2
    I would say, that sounds pretty deadly. And personally I would rather roll 5D6 in a single roll - with Gang-Up this is hard enough. One result of your idea would also be that very tough enemies could be wounded easily when numbers are high. "Go peasants! Club that dragon to death!"
    If you really find rolling many dice too tedious (which I do not), I suggest to look into existing rules for Swarms or use Group Rolls (they are normally only used out of combat), perhaps in combination with Gang Up. Either way, play-test the original and modifications before put them to use.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by LordInquisitorMithras View Post
      The purpose of this draft rule is to speed up a scenario where there are several group of EXTRAS involved in a confrontation, and the GM still want to make it a regular combat scenario without using Mass Battle / Quick Encounter rules presented in the Core SWADE Book [Note: that I still appreciate those rules very much]
      Thanks for including the goal!

      I'm confused why the GM doesn't just roll one handful of six d6. I've always found it easier to roll a fistful of dice, discard any that were 3 or less, reroll Aces, and then move on to damage, instead of doing math and applying modifiers. Object recognition is easier for humans than mathematics, even the simple math of basic arithmetic.

      I can see why a GM would want to do damage in a single roll. Unfortunately, modifiers to damage are incredibly powerful, given the tight number ranges of Savage Worlds. The Drop, when you have a foe totally surprised and off guard, is a +4 to attack and damage.
      While I certainly understand finding repetitive damage rolls to be tedious, as both a payer and GM I appreciate the innate tension of damage - where any roll can suddenly ace and take the target from "perfect" to "death's door". That tension is lost when there is no chance of the character emerging without serious harm (the example damage is a minimum of 10, guaranteed to drop a normal human and seriously threaten an average Judge), or very little chance of the target being harmed (trying to hurt a dragon with a knife and Strength d4). In my experience, the increased tension is worth the increased time expenditure.
      I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
        I've always found it easier to roll a fistful of dice, discard any that were 3 or less, reroll Aces, and then move on to damage, instead of doing math and applying modifiers.
        I'm confused - assuming you're talking about Fighting attacks, why "3 or less"? To speed things up, do you just assume the entire party has a Parry of 4? Or are you talking about Shooting attacks, in which case for Fighting attacks how do you decide which die is "attacking" which PC, in order to determine if the roll is equal to or above their Parry? I mean, if there's 6 in the party, and you roll 6 d6's, how do you decide which party members the Successes hit?

        Savage Summaries-RAW, with added info from Clint:Combat Actions,Cover,Healing,Using Powers,Grappling,Chases
        Also:Persuasion,Better Bosses,Better Combat Rating
        And:historical tech levels,generic SW sci-fi tech levels

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ZenFox42 View Post

          I'm confused - assuming you're talking about Fighting attacks, why "3 or less"? To speed things up, do you just assume the entire party has a Parry of 4? Or are you talking about Shooting attacks, in which case for Fighting attacks how do you decide which die is "attacking" which PC, in order to determine if the roll is equal to or above their Parry? I mean, if there's 6 in the party, and you roll 6 d6's, how do you decide which party members the Successes hit?
          Granted it would be parry and not a ranged attack but the rule appears to be for a bunch of extras attacking a single target. So one parry target and no need to determine which party member is hit.

          Comment


          • ZenFox42
            ZenFox42 commented
            Editing a comment
            "..no need to determine which party member is hit."

            ??? Each die rolled represents one party member. If 3 of them are a 4 or better, 3 party members get hit. So how do you determine which party members get hit?

          • Radecliffe
            Radecliffe commented
            Editing a comment
            ZenFox42 Because as I already pointed out this rule as submitted by the OP is for multiple Extras attacking ONE PC. It specifically says this in the OP.
            Instead of rolling 5xD6 rolls as these Extras attack one target, the GM make one roll instead and adds +1 for every Extra involved in the attack.
            This is a many to one situation, not many to many. Good Grief.

          • ZenFox42
            ZenFox42 commented
            Editing a comment
            Ok, sorry, that's what I get for trying to read posts before my morning coffee.

        • #6
          One of my favorite rule from Exalted was the "army as equipment" concept.

          Instead of having a bunch of Extras running around, mass battle was resolved by having the character's company give a few extra wounds and passive bonuses. Once those extra wounds were gone, the army was considered defeated and only the character remained standing.

          For example, a huge army of archers would give +2 wounds, +1 on ranged attack rolls and +d6 damage to the character in charge.

          A large heavily armored shieldbearer retinue would give +1 wound, +2 Parry and +2 Toughness

          Etc.

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by ZenFox42 View Post
            I'm confused - assuming you're talking about Fighting attacks, why "3 or less"? To speed things up, do you just assume the entire party has a Parry of 4? Or are you talking about Shooting attacks, in which case for Fighting attacks how do you decide which die is "attacking" which PC, in order to determine if the roll is equal to or above their Parry? I mean, if there's 6 in the party, and you roll 6 d6's, how do you decide which party members the Successes hit?
            Given that the example scenario is six Extras making Shooting attacks, I don't know why you would assume I was talking about Fighting.

            When there are two or more PCs being attacked by Fighting foes, I split my handfuls into numbers matching each batch of attackers. Roll, compare to PC parry, and either roll damage or not.
            If I'm having only one Extra attack each PC then I'll assign dice to each character ahead of time. The red die goes to the wizard, the white die to the fighter, the speckled die to the cleric, the green die to the ranger, etc. Then roll the dice, compare to Parry and move on.
            Again, that's incredibly simple to do in play and I've always found it easier than adding.
            I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

            Comment


            • ZenFox42
              ZenFox42 commented
              Editing a comment
              Sorry, I hadn't looked at the OP in so long, I'd forgotten that it explicitly mentioned Shooting.

          • #8
            Thank you everyone for responding to this thread =)
            I appreciate the feedback very much. I am rather new to SWADE and hearing from smarter and more experienced people is very valuable to me.

            After testing for myself I agree completely that the House Rule would be rather lethal, and that rolling a bunch of hit dices at once for extras is not really a problem.

            Just as a curiosity, have any of you tried a way to group multiple damage rolls [same weapons, same damage, same extras] into one roll? (taking into consideration extra dmg for Raises and such) =) If so, I would love to hear it!

            Comment


            • dentris
              dentris commented
              Editing a comment
              The Super Power Companion have the "combination" attack option (think the Fast Ball special of Collossus and Wolverine)

              If I remember correctly (I don't have my book ATM), one character is the "main" performer, and everyone makes an attack roll. If the "main" hits, he rolls damage with a +1 bonus per additional character that hits (+2 with a raise)

            • ValhallaGH
              ValhallaGH commented
              Editing a comment
              dentris A bit more complex than that, but you've got the jist. Essentially, the other characters are Supporting the damage by making attack rolls. With success they give +1 damage per level of their relevant super power, +2 per rank with a raise.

          • #9
            Originally posted by LordInquisitorMithras View Post
            Thank you everyone for responding to this thread =)
            You're quite welcome.

            Originally posted by LordInquisitorMithras View Post
            Just as a curiosity, have any of you tried a way to group multiple damage rolls [same weapons, same damage, same extras] into one roll? (taking into consideration extra dmg for Raises and such) =) If so, I would love to hear it!
            I've tried but had no success. The combination is either weak enough that as a matter of tactics the characters are better off attacking individually (creating cognitive dissonance if they don't) or powerful enough that it skews all damage predictions.

            It's worth remembering that Savage Worlds was written with tactical war gaming in mind. The idea of a formation of 80 rat-men spear-bearers fighting against a company of 20 mounted knights, and resolving it quickly, was very much in the developer's mind during the original design process (page 7). After playing around with a few things, they settled on the current damage rules as the best compromise of fast, fun, and fair. I haven't had much luck proving them wrong.

            We'll be happy to look at any group damage rules you come up with, and give you feedback.
            Good luck!
            I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

            Comment

            Working...
            X