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SWEX, SWD, SWADE Chase rules - what's your favorite?

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  • SWEX, SWD, SWADE Chase rules - what's your favorite?

    As the title says...and why?
    Savage Summaries-RAW, with added info from Clint:Combat Actions,Cover,Healing,Using Powers,Grappling,Chases
    Also:Persuasion,Better Bosses,Better Combat Rating
    And:historical tech levels,generic SW sci-fi tech levels

  • #2
    I like the Adventure version the most.
    Tying complications to the position card, not the action card, makes movement and positioning into a risk / reward choice. The set up handles races (reach a certain position), chases (successfully use Escape), and dog fights (round and round until all foes are dead or surrender) with equal aplomb, and the position cards allow for static environmental concerns to be used cleverly.
    The learning curve is a bit steeper than for some of the other chase rules, but overall I find it to be a good mix of intuitive and versatile. Plus, gunfights during chases are very satisfying.

    Explorer was good for a race scenario, but that was pretty much it. Any scenario more complex than "go fast to that point" didn't work well. Escape required too much distance. Dog fights, or running gunfights, rewarded the slower participants.

    Deluxe chases were good for chases and dog fights but weren't satisfying for racing. The wildly variable combat complications required a lot of on the spot creativity and thought to fit into the scene, and there was a bit of wonkiness when an obstacle would come and go at random.
    I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

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    • #3
      I didn't like the SWEX solution, because the chases could sometimes drag on for a long time. The SWD chase rules had issues, and I know a lot of people found them confusing, but overall I thought they were quite good (given the choice, I'd rather have seen them kept and streamlined for SWADE). I find the current SWADE chase rules too complex for my tastes, and I don't like the need for a second deck of cards.
      My blog: Savage Stuff. I've also written some free tools and supplements.

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      • #4
        Adventure Edition.

        For a lot of the same reasons already stated (so I won't repeat them), but also because the Chase Cards provide a visual basis for events. Players can "see" a Complication ahead (Club card) and plan accordingly. Also, the addition of Bumping opponents into hazards makes for much more dynamic play.

        There are also fun little tweaks you can do to make a scene more interesting. Say you're running a space battle, and lay out cards in the grid format. You can turn one card face-down to represent the sun (players cannot move onto that card; they must navigate around it). If a capitalship explodes, replace the card with a Clubs to signify a debris field.

        In a linear Chase, the GM can add a new Chase Card and advance every participant's token by one card at the end of each round. This represents forward progress while offering a changing landscape. Complication cards represent static, environmental hazards (quicksand, fire, traffic jam, etc) rather than player-centric (tripped on rock, sand in face, oblivious pedestrian on cellphone walks right into the street, etc.)

        ______

        Deluxe Chase rules may be better if you are running a pure Theater-of-the-Mind game, just as long as you ignore the 'Range' of cards and treat the penalties as relative distance/difficulty. This helps to explain how two participants can go from 'long range' to 'adjacent' in the span of a single round, and allows for melee attacks at any range. The narrative and GM determine the "actual" distance between participants and whether or not melee is a viable option.
        Last edited by Deskepticon; 01-13-2020, 05:04 PM.

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        • #5
          I am not a fan of any of the chase rules.

          Instead I normally use Dramatic tasks as the chase rules.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Ndreare View Post
            I am not a fan of any of the chase rules.

            Instead I normally use Dramatic tasks as the chase rules.
            Interesting! Could you please expand on how you do that? Thanks!
            Savage Summaries-RAW, with added info from Clint:Combat Actions,Cover,Healing,Using Powers,Grappling,Chases
            Also:Persuasion,Better Bosses,Better Combat Rating
            And:historical tech levels,generic SW sci-fi tech levels

            Comment


            • Ndreare
              Ndreare commented
              Editing a comment
              Just like quick combat from SWD.
              Set a contested roll and determine resources used. Quick and easy, the assumption is the players escape or capture as needed for the plot, but the question is how awesome they look while doing it and what does it cost them?

          • #7
            SWEX was before my time with the system so no comment on them. I started playing SW right around the time Deluxe came out I think. (Long time Hero System player before SW).

            SWD had a good system for theater of the mind chases/dogfights, but as others have mentioned had some issues with combat ranges and didn't handle races well.

            Since I prefer minis on the table to theater of the mind, SWADE has the better Chase system for what I like to get out of the game. Plus I think it handles all the variants, Chases/Dogfights/Races, well.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by Zadmar View Post
              I didn't like the SWEX solution, because the chases could sometimes drag on for a long time. The SWD chase rules had issues, and I know a lot of people found them confusing, but overall I thought they were quite good (given the choice, I'd rather have seen them kept and streamlined for SWADE). I find the current SWADE chase rules too complex for my tastes, and I don't like the need for a second deck of cards.
              The issue is easily solved by deciding how many rounds the chase lasts.

              I use the Explorer's Edition with chase length limits and Adventure Edition's Maneuvers.

              Comment


              • #9
                I like Deluxe the best but it had issues - too much rested on the card you got from your piloting/driving/etc roll - it was position, initiative and range/cover all wrapping into one card. I liked what the preliminary SWADE rules were trying to do - it was trying to capture Deluxe with a bit more positioning. But they were confusing and ultimately dropped.

                We had a couple of back to back Chases under SWADE - I just do not like the SWADE rules (this is the only bad thing you hear from me about SWADE). It was enough I made my own (glad to link if anyone is interested). My biggest problem with them is they do not replicate what you see in movies. If that is what you want, SW Chases just do not model them well. So my changes focuses on:

                1. Make Extras Extras. Does anyone want to run a big fight with a bunch of Extras with 4 wounds? Well, that is what the chase rules do. Make Extras up, down or off the table just like normal Extras
                2. Extras need their own Out of Control table. The current table is fine for the PCs and WC enemies, but Extras should go careening out of control

                To illustrate 1 and 2 - watch the classic chase for the Ark in Indiana Jones. IJ is Forcing Nazis off the road and out of the chase left and right. No version of the SW rules will get you this outcome. In the current version, you have to win the opposed roll (fine), then you have 1 in 36 chance to get the "take d4 wounds" result, then a 1/4 chance to roll 4 woulds. So a 1 in 144 chance to replicate the same outcome in Savage Worlds.

                3. I am not a fan of lots of opposed rolls - the current rules has too many of them. It slows things down and its probably a bennie suck on the Pilot. the pilot already has to worry about their rolls and if Ace, soaking damage. I make a vehicle defense that is 2+Piloting/2. Maneuvers tend to be against that vs. a moving TN.

                4. At first I liked the SWADE position cards. But the problem is for non-ranged weapon encounters all the fun stuff only happens when everyone is on one card. What is the fun car speeding through the city if you can only do stuff if on one card? Deluxe made it hard as well - you had to both have a high card and go first. I wanted more dynamic on the fly action.

                5. Lastly, I think Savage Worlds makes chases less likely and fun by breaking its own skill/edge paradigm. Everyplace else tries to consolidate down skills and has edges to make you distinct. Chases can be Athletics, Driving, Riding, Piloting, and Boating. But Ace applies to all of them. Most other skills are generic (you can fight with any weapon, or shoot any range weapon) and they have edges take make you distinct. I know people will push back on this one, but really the GM controls the encounters and that avoids the "race car driver flying a space ship" issue. Its more fun if more people can be a part of the chase. Currently there is a vicious cycle. People do not take these skills because they will not get to use them often. GMs do not make chases because the PCs do not have the right skills. To me it should be Athletics (for foot/horse/people powered vehicles) or Piloting (mechanical vehicles).

                That's my rant. In the end, I really think there needs to be an Extra's concept in the Chase rules. It would make any of the variations more fun.

                Last edited by amerigoV; 01-17-2020, 05:03 PM.
                Jeffrey...
                Left is Death!

                Comment


                • #10
                  I started during SWEX and liked those rules just fine at the time, although I don't think I could clearly explain why at this point. It's just been too long since I looked at them, let alone used them. I never cared for the SWD Chase rules. They seemed to dumb things down to much and consequently, I don't recall using Chases much as a result. The SWADE Chase rules went through several iterations between their initial debut (which looked a lot closer to SWEX rules) and consequently got a lot more feedback, resulting in what I think is the best version yet (pretty much like the rest of SWADE itself). I've run several chases (but no dogfights) in my two campaigns and they worked well. The biggest issue was getting players to remember that the suit of the Initiative track determined whether or not there was a complication while the suit of the chase track determined the type of complication. Confusion seemed to come up every time.

                  Comment


                  • #11
                    Originally posted by amerigoV View Post
                    We had a couple of back to back Chases under SWADE - I just do not like the SWADE rules (this is the only bad thing you hear from me about SWADE). It was enough I made my own (glad to link if anyone is interested).
                    Yes, please!

                    Savage Summaries-RAW, with added info from Clint:Combat Actions,Cover,Healing,Using Powers,Grappling,Chases
                    Also:Persuasion,Better Bosses,Better Combat Rating
                    And:historical tech levels,generic SW sci-fi tech levels

                    Comment


                    • #12
                      Originally posted by ZenFox42 View Post

                      Yes, please!
                      Caution, this might be more like a Weird Science creation. I know I can get them to work, hard to tell if anyone else can

                      https://drive.google.com/open?id=1I-...-ViYsNgvPKM7oc

                      Note: I was on an Indiana Jones binge when I made these. It might help to watch the original movie to get a visual of what I am going for here.
                      Jeffrey...
                      Left is Death!

                      Comment


                      • ZenFox42
                        ZenFox42 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Thanks, I'll look it over!

                    • #13
                      Originally posted by Deskepticon View Post
                      Adventure Edition.

                      For a lot of the same reasons already stated (so I won't repeat them), but also because the Chase Cards provide a visual basis for events. Players can "see" a Complication ahead (Club card) and plan accordingly. Also, the addition of Bumping opponents into hazards makes for much more dynamic play.
                      I think you have that wrong. A Chase card of clubs does not cause a complication, the Action card does. The suit of the Chase card determines the modifier and failure result. Though having a Chase card of clubs being the trigger for a complication isn't a bad idea for a house rule. Actually I think one of the SWADE chase rule iterations did it that way.

                      Comment


                      • Deskepticon
                        Deskepticon commented
                        Editing a comment
                        You are right!
                        Dang, I'm the goose. That's what I get for not brushing up on the rules before posting.
                        (Will I ever learn?)
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