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[SWDE] Raise on Teleport and Telekinesis

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  • [SWDE] Raise on Teleport and Telekinesis

    Hi all, I have a question about these two powers.
    If you get a raise, both powers let you do something that you can't normally do: move for a longer distance or lift a heavier weight.
    I was wondering if the target is decided before or after the roll.
    I will make an example.
    Can a wizard say "I'll use Telekinesis", throw the dice, see that he got a raise and then decide to lift that particularly heavy enemy?
    Or does he have to say "I'll use Telekinesis on that heavy enemy" and then hope to get a raise on the following roll, and fail if he gets a simple success?

  • #2
    The standard in Savage Worlds is to declare everything you intend to do, and then roll the dice. That's so that you can figure out what MAP to apply (if any), and so that if one of your steps fails, you can't proceed with the remaining steps. Like if you said "I'm going to move 4" over to that guy and attack him", if anything gets in the way of your moving the 4", you can't attack him.
    Savage Summaries-RAW, with added info from Clint:Combat Actions,Cover,Healing,Using Powers,Grappling,Chases
    Also:Persuasion,Better Bosses,Better Combat Rating
    And:historical tech levels,generic SW sci-fi tech levels

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    • #3
      With something like TK success is relative. You can get a success and the power activates. It will stay active for 5 rounds. So even though you might fail to pick up your target because you needed a raise you could still pick up a rock on round two and start beating him with it if you chose to do so.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Radecliffe View Post
        So even though you might fail to pick up your target because you needed a raise you could still pick up a rock on round two and start beating him with it if you chose to do so.
        How is that not a failure, as in a failure to activate the power? We're talking about Luke failing to lift the X-Wing here. He didn't follow that up with continuing to stack stones.

        Or to put it another way, the sniper declaring he wants to hit the sentry at long range but only scoring a 7, so he settles for shooting the one 30 yards away.

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        • #5
          Originally posted by paladin2019 View Post
          How is that not a failure, as in a failure to activate the power? We're talking about Luke failing to lift the X-Wing here. He didn't follow that up with continuing to stack stones.

          Or to put it another way, the sniper declaring he wants to hit the sentry at long range but only scoring a 7, so he settles for shooting the one 30 yards away.
          Think of it this way. You activate the power and roll a 5, a simple success and the power activates. The power is not instant and is good for 5 rounds or more if maintained. As part of your turn you want to use your newly activated TK to move an object. If it is an inanimate object you should be able to move it if you have sufficient strength and if the target is an unwilling being there is also an opposed Spirit roll. But even if this use of the power fails that doesn't mean that the power itself fails. The next turn you can still attempt to use the now active power in some other way.

          The Luke example is a bit disingenuous because it is pure narrative, not an application of Savage Worlds rules. As to the sniper I'm not sure what you are saying. The sniper has to declare his target using what is essentially an instant power. If he fails he can attempt to shoot either the same target or a different one the next turn with a new attempt rather than a continuation of the attempt from last turn.

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          • #6
            Shane himself says you can change things after casting teleport.
            https://www.pegforum.com/forum/savag...5933#post15933

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Radecliffe View Post

              Think of it this way. You activate the power and roll a 5, a simple success and the power activates. The power is not instant and is good for 5 rounds or more if maintained. As part of your turn you want to use your newly activated TK to move an object. If it is an inanimate object you should be able to move it if you have sufficient strength and if the target is an unwilling being there is also an opposed Spirit roll. But even if this use of the power fails that doesn't mean that the power itself fails. The next turn you can still attempt to use the now active power in some other way.
              If you declare that you are activating a power to do X and X requires a raise, if you fail to make the raise, I don't see how the power should activate. (If you activate before and then use what you get, it's a different story.)

              Originally posted by Radecliffe View Post
              The Luke example is a bit disingenuous because it is pure narrative, not an application of Savage Worlds rules. As to the sniper I'm not sure what you are saying. The sniper has to declare his target using what is essentially an instant power. If he fails he can attempt to shoot either the same target or a different one the next turn with a new attempt rather than a continuation of the attempt from last turn.
              Using a clear pop culture reference is an entirely valid shorthand for identifying what a game mechanic does or should model. We all know it's pure narrative. That's the point.

              The OP referred specifically to the question of whether you have to declare all the parameters (including improvements requiring raises) before rolling dice to activate the powers and if you fail to get the effect you want but still make the base TN, whether the power still activates. I'd err on the side of no, because you failed to get the higher TN you were trying for in the beginning. The X-Wing was an example of that. But, apparently, you can change your mind about parameters after activating, at least for telekinesis.

              As for the Shooting example, if you declare an action that makes the TN more difficult and fail to achieve the new TN, why do you still get the effect of the base TN? I don't see a difference.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by paladin2019 View Post
                If you declare that you are activating a power to do X and X requires a raise, if you fail to make the raise, I don't see how the power should activate. (If you activate before and then use what you get, it's a different story.)
                The telekinesis power has a Duration higher than Instant. What Radecliffe is saying is, if the object has a weight that requires a raise to lift, the power simply fails to lift it, BUT... it doesn't prevent the power from activating.

                The OP referred specifically to the question of whether you have to declare all the parameters (including improvements requiring raises) before rolling dice to activate the powers and if you fail to get the effect you want but still make the base TN, whether the power still activates. I'd err on the side of no, because you failed to get the higher TN you were trying for in the beginning.
                There are many powers that function with that same duality. Bolt just needs a TN 4 to activate, but Cover, obscurement, and certain Edges might make the TN to actually hit higher. And you can still attempt to shoot through obstacles as well.

                As for the Shooting example, if you declare an action that makes the TN more difficult and fail to achieve the new TN, why do you still get the effect of the base TN? I don't see a difference.
                Shooting has, essentially, an Instant effect. Telekinesis has Duration in rounds. Radecliffe never said you get to change the target of the power on the same round; he specifically said "on the next round" ... because the power is still active.

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                • #9
                  The telekinesis power has a duration. For the duration of the power, the character can move stuff with magic. A successful activation begins that duration.
                  The Strength of this effect is determined when activating the power. If that strength is insufficient to do something the character wanted to do, try combining it with the efforts of allies in a Cooperative check. If a d12 Strength is required to do the task then you should probably be trying to do something else anyway.
                  To continue the Empire analogy, Luke activated telekinesis with a basic success. Yoda used his Extra Effort Edge* to ensure he got a raise, and chided Luke for not being willing to use his own Extra Effort.

                  Teleport is one of the few powers that allows the caster to change the target after rolling, because something can become "in range" by rolling a raise.

                  *Yeah, I'm saying The Force is Arcane Background (Gifted). You wanna fight about it!? Then we need to go to another thread.
                  Last edited by ValhallaGH; 07-15-2019, 08:30 PM.
                  I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
                    *Yeah, I'm saying The Force is Arcane Background (Gifted). You wanna fight about it!? Then we need to go to another thread.
                    Yeah, I do. You're totally wrong, because The Force is AB (Gifted) with laser swords.

                    Comment


                    • Deskepticon
                      Deskepticon commented
                      Editing a comment
                      But Fin isn't Force sensitive, and he Jar-Jar'd his way to success with a *ahem* laser sword.

                    • paladin2019
                      paladin2019 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Sure. But could he smite with his laser sword? :P

                    • ZenFox42
                      ZenFox42 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Anyone who's watched Because Science knows that light sabers are plasma-based weapons, not laser-based.
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