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  • Supers/anime fighting

    So I was wondering how to model certain combat moves and effects you see in the movies and fantasy anime.

    First, what would the rolls be for a grappled foe to be rammed into the ground using flight or being slammed from 10 stories high? what would the damage be?

    Second, what would be the damage if someone was slammed THROUGH a building or steel ships hull via knockback or a foe being used as a ram?

    Third, how does quick and acrobatic fighters flip and slam foes that are stronger or more massive than them? How would you use the classic Trope of using your enemies strength against them? Example would be Black Widow from Cinematic Marvel Universe, the last Mission Impossible fighting scenes, or the feeble Grand Master throwing hulking brute.

    Last, how do you parry/deflect/defend energy attacks with energy attacks? How would you do power vs power in a "pushing" contest?

    A last after thought. How do you model giants fighting or large Dragons(25' long w/o tail) melee combatants? Do you give them all reach? How do you model the giants melee attack being normally unblockable by 'Normal" Strength Players?

    Thank you, I appreciate your time.

    Last edited by kurseteller; 09-12-2017, 01:00 AM. Reason: Just though of another question

  • #2
    Bump. Any thoughts on the matter above?

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    • #3
      These are just my personal takes. If you want more official answers you'll have to ask in the official forums. However, you should probably distinguish between which version of Super Powers you're using. There are two: the Savage Worlds Deluxe (SWD) version and the Super Powers Companion (SPC) version.

      First, what would the rolls be for a grappled foe to be rammed into the ground using flight or being slammed from 10 stories high? what would the damage be?
      Depends on how fast their going. If you're standing at ground level and flipping them over the shoulder, then I'd probably rule it a push maneuver instead of a grapple; which means no damage. If you're dropping them from 10 stories up and letting gravity do the rest, then it's 10d6+10 (1d6+1 per 10 feet). If you're flying and ramming them into the earth (or similarly large and heavy structure) then it's collision damage. That means it's 1d6 for every 5" of movement. That means Pace 48" becomes 9d6 damage. Pace 96" would be 19d6. Of course, you actually have to move full speed to do that. And a GM might rule if you hit them and then fly up to avoid taking the damage yourself it might be less; based on how far you carried them. And I wouldn't even bother with trying to calculate at higher speeds.

      Oh, and the earth would be considered a heavy weapon because of its mass. Feel free to treat any object with heavy armor as the same. Whether that means a 1-ton tree from the park, or a pickup truck, counts as a heavy weapon for purposes of impact is up to the GM.

      Second, what would be the damage if someone was slammed THROUGH a building or steel ships hull via knockback or a foe being used as a ram?
      This is actually covered on page 8 of the SPC. By RAW, there's no damage for hitting an object by being knocked into it. If a damage total breaks a certain threshold (20 for medium creatures) then it flies back 2d6" and takes 1d6 damage for every 2" traveled. I suggest treating this as just a bigger version of being thrown into a wall in SWD. It's a separate effect that must be calculated independently of the damage which caused the knockback. This means it's possible for a single attack to trigger multiple soak rolls; depending on how bid the rolls end up being.

      Third, how does quick and acrobatic fighters flip and slam foes that are stronger or more massive than them? How would you use the classic Trope of using your enemies strength against them? Example would be Black Widow from Cinematic Marvel Universe, the last Mission Impossible fighting scenes, or the feeble Grand Master throwing hulking brute.
      There's no trip maneuver. The closest the game gets is with Push (SWD 75), and that's pure Strength. I do think you may be confusing some examples. A Judo throw, for example, is dependent on being the defender. That might mean having the Counterattack and/or First Strike Edges. Black Widow vaults onto her enemies and is adept at wrestling. That might be accomplished with an imported Edge from another setting, or a modified Entangle Power. Consider looking at Agility Tricks and Power Tricks. You may have to invent a rule, but don't stress over it unless a player asks about it.

      Last, how do you parry/deflect/defend energy attacks with energy attacks? How would you do power vs power in a "pushing" contest?
      Trappings for the Parry and Deflect Powers would be the best answer for the first question. The dueling energy blasts is a thing which probably doesn't exist. That's a very specific anime trope, and to my knowledge there's no Savage Worlds setting which adequately accounts for it.

      A last after thought. How do you model giants fighting or large Dragons(25' long w/o tail) melee combatants? Do you give them all reach? How do you model the giants melee attack being normally unblockable by 'Normal" Strength Players?
      A creature doesn't have Reach unless it's listed in their stat block. Dragons and giants don't normally come with Reach, but you can add those qualities if you so desire. And no attack is "unblockable" in the sense you're probably thinking of. The Parry stat is an abstraction of several seconds of combat. It's not one sword swing, but several. There will be parries, dodges, and so forth. After all, each medium character occupies a 1" square that, in real people terms, is 6' by 6'. That's a huge space to move in during a fight. A big creature might inflict Heavy Weapon damage, but that just means their attacks can still affect someone protected by Heavy Armor. Heavy Weapons don't ignore regular armor, or prevent a character from soaking the damage.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by kurseteller View Post
        So I was wondering how to model certain combat moves and effects you see in the movies and fantasy anime.

        First, what would the rolls be for a grappled foe to be rammed into the ground using flight or being slammed from 10 stories high? what would the damage be?
        It would probably be a trapping for dealing Strength damage in a grapple. If that was unsatisfactory, it may be moving a grappled foe (better be strong), ending with damage (probably falling damage).
        Alternatively, it is a great trapping for a Power Stunt of flight into attack, melee, letting the player turn those 11+ points of flight into Str+5d6, HW of attack, melee.
        Two flight + collision threads: http://archive.pegforum.com/viewtopi...415598#p415598, http://archive.pegforum.com/viewtopi...422614#p422614.

        Originally posted by kurseteller View Post
        Second, what would be the damage if someone was slammed THROUGH a building or steel ships hull via knockback or a foe being used as a ram?
        Knockback damage is defined. Specifically as 1d6 per 2" of knockback rolled. If the hard object breaks, and the character still has knockback distance to travel, then they may hit another hard object, causing another knockback damage roll.
        Ramming a foe into a hard object is probably just a cool description of a Wild Attack or Push maneuver. Trappings are for more than just powers. You could also use it as the Trapping for a Power Stunt to turn flight into a lot of attack, melee to beat up a foe.

        Originally posted by kurseteller View Post
        Third, how does quick and acrobatic fighters flip and slam foes that are stronger or more massive than them? How would you use the classic Trope of using your enemies strength against them? Example would be Black Widow from Cinematic Marvel Universe, the last Mission Impossible fighting scenes, or the feeble Grand Master throwing hulking brute.
        Grapple starts with an opposed Fighting roll - quick and acrobatic fighters are going to have a good Fighting skill (often with super skill to enhance it). Get a Raise on the opposed check and your foe becomes Shaken; then you can stop maintaining the grapple, or choose to roll Agility to prevent escape. You're not dealing a lot of damage, but you can keep someone out of the fight and keep them useless with banter (i.e. Taunt as a Test of Will to keep them Shaken).

        Originally posted by kurseteller View Post
        Last, how do you parry/deflect/defend energy attacks with energy attacks? How would you do power vs power in a "pushing" contest?
        Usually, that's a trapping of powers like deflection, parry, and uncanny reflexes, but it might also be a trapping on a Soak roll.
        Contests can be power stunts for negation, or simply a use of powers with appropriate trappings to negate each other (the Synergy setting rule). Heck, maybe even the use of a Power Trick.

        Originally posted by kurseteller View Post
        A last after thought. How do you model giants fighting or large Dragons(25' long w/o tail) melee combatants? Do you give them all reach? How do you model the giants melee attack being normally unblockable by 'Normal" Strength Players?
        Fights among giants is easy - it's just a fight, with combatants that happen to be Size +4 or larger (use the SPC growth power if you need specific player-usable rules on getting that big). Reach is a special ability, indicative of especially long attacks (the thing can hit foes six more feat away, with no special effort, per level of reach) and if I'm using the SPC then I'll give the critter some points of the Reach extra from attack, melee.
        Being strong enough to paste a normal human is easily done with a high Strength attribute and maybe some attack, melee - if the characters get hit then they get pasted (Strength d12+6 with +2d6 Stackable melee damage means even a kick will do an average 21.5 damage, minimum 9, which will splat a "normal" Extra and cream most "normal" Wild Cards).
        Remember, the Parry game mechanic isn't just about blocking attacks - it covers blocking, deflecting, redirecting, and simple dodging; it is the game mechanic for "don't get punched, stabbed, or stepped on".
        If the gigantic monster is really good at hitting normal size targets (for some reason) then I'll give him the Big Fists modifier from growth, ignoring -2 or -4 penalties on attacks. Which makes it hard to dodge and nearly impossible to block.
        I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

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        • #5
          Thank you Jounichi and Valhalla! I appreciate the replies!

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