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Growth/Shrink and equipped weapons ?

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  • Growth/Shrink and equipped weapons ?

    Hello,
    When casting Power Growth/Shrink on a being, it does growth/shrink the whole person.
    But what happens to their gear ?

    Since clothes do growth/shrink, I will assume that dagger/sword/hammer will also grow/shrink.


    1/ But what happen to the weapon core damage ? A dagger (str+d4) growing to in size would become a short sword which should be str+d6 ?

    2/ What if I drop the weapon ? I suppose Power continue to apply until it is dispelled, cancelled or ends. So the weapon remains larger/smaller as long as the original owner remain larger/smaller.

    Thank for your insight.

  • #2
    Welcome to the Forum!

    Originally posted by gronyon View Post
    Hello,
    When casting Power Growth/Shrink on a being, it does growth/shrink the whole person.
    But what happens to their gear ?

    Since clothes do growth/shrink, I will assume that dagger/sword/hammer will also grow/shrink.
    This depends on the Trappings of the power and what the GM is willing to allow. Characters can take a Limitation on their powers to save a point or two. Limiting growth/shrink might say it doesn't apply to clothes or gear (purple pants excluded ).

    1/ But what happen to the weapon core damage ? A dagger (str+d4) growing to in size would become a short sword which should be str+d6 ?
    Debatable.
    Growth wouldn't make the dagger sharper, just bigger. And it's still a dagger in the character's hand. To someone else it would be a short sword... with a large awkward grip, possibly making it an improvised weapon as well.

    2/ What if I drop the weapon ? I suppose Power continue to apply until it is dispelled, cancelled or ends. So the weapon remains larger/smaller as long as the original owner remain larger/smaller.
    Again, depends on the power's Trappings and the GM's leniency. But generally, yes, once an item is affected by a power, it remains affected for the entire duration, or until the caster selectively dispels it.

    Thank for your insight.
    For what it's worth, you're welcome.

    Comment


    • #3
      Welcome to the forum.

      Deskepticon seems to have covered the big points, but I'll throw my two cents into it.

      1/ But what happen to the weapon core damage ? A dagger (str+d4) growing to in size would become a short sword which should be str+d6 ?
      By default, nothing. It's possible the damage might change but that's going to be a better-than-normal effect and should cost more Power Points.
      However, the character's Strength will change which will improve the average damage for Strength-based weapons.

      2/ What if I drop the weapon ? I suppose Power continue to apply until it is dispelled, cancelled or ends. So the weapon remains larger/smaller as long as the original owner remain larger/smaller.
      Depends upon the power trappings and GM ruling. But growth/shrink targets characters, not items. You may be able to change that but it's not the default.
      I would assume that any weapon or item that left the target would return to normal size. If it remained affected then it would remain affected for the entire duration of the power.


      Good luck, and I hope that helps some.
      I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

      Comment


      • #4
        As far as I'm aware, Savage Worlds doesn't have any rules for adjusting weapon damage based on size. The Size +3 minotaur in the core rules, for example, has a standard Str+d6 spear, but it deals a lot of damage because the creature has a d12+3 Strength. The ogre has a Str+d8 "massive club" which I've always read as a two-handed club, and that's the same damage I'd use for a human-sized two-handed club.

        The giants in the Fantasy Companion mostly use Str+d10 mauls, though it's noted that they can use them one-handed. That's a pretty old book now, though, and hasn't been updated to SWADE yet.

        Comment


        • #5
          A safe way to play questions like these is to allow for the flavor that makes sense (ie. clothes grow/shrink with the target), but when it comes to numbers/dice those only change when the rules say they change (ie. larger size gives the boost to strength and toughness).

          Comment


          • #6
            There is one other minor effect I think is noteworthy. It's reasonable to declare that any object under the effect of Growth/Shrink has its Hardness affected in the same manner as a living target's Toughness. A shrunken sword is thinner and easier to snap, while an enlarged shield is now thicker, and thus harder to break.

            Comment


            • Deskepticon
              Deskepticon commented
              Editing a comment
              That's a Trapping that assumes the object alters its density as it grows/shrinks, gaining information (i.e., molecules) as it grows, removing information as it shrinks.

              It might be self-balancing, depending on whether the character uses both applications of the power equally. Otherwise, they are gaining an extra benefit by growing and losing one by shrinking. So it might be more fair to increase the cost for growth and decrease it for shrink.

              Logic could be a good hill to die on. Beware of "scientific" Trappings.

              I mean, if we were to follow logic to its scientific end, growth would decrease a weapon's base damage die as its edge becomes wider/duller. Shrink would increase the base damage die as the edge approaches monofiliment proportions.

              Also, scientifically, any character that grows rapidly will also rapidly lose heat (think of a can of compressed air). A rapidly shrinking character will burn-up, as the friction of their molecules compressing generates thermal energy.

              Taking cold/heat damage whenever you use the power might make a good basis for a Limitation, but sometimes magic just needs to be magic, requiring no logical explanation.

            • ValhallaGH
              ValhallaGH commented
              Editing a comment
              That's not as accurate as many intuit. There are a lot of slim metal objects that are much more difficult to damage because their small size makes it very difficult to achieve effective leverage, when the same force applied to a larger object would ruin it.

              TL;DR like Ozymandias said, if the rules don't declare the numbers change then you should be very reluctant to change the numbers.

            • Freemage
              Freemage commented
              Editing a comment
              I concede both points, but I do think 'Hardness' is sufficiently parallel to 'Toughness' for most purposes that it's a reasonable shorthand. "Reasonable" here does not mean "The One True And Only Way". It's just an option for folks who think embiggening and shrinkage should have some sort of affect on objects, without doing "This sword is now a dagger" type calculations.
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