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[SWADE v4.1] Some final observations

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  • [SWADE v4.1] Some final observations

    Page 69: The Pot Helm feels like it's Min Str. is too high; by my understanding, Pot Helms were very commonly used by soldiers (especially the vikings) who primarily wore chain or gambesen armor, in lieu of using the coif. Maybe it's worth decreasing the coif's Min Strength to d6 and the open-faced pot helm to Min Str. d8? (Leather/hide/flax headgear was very rarely used anyways.)

    Page 72: Maces are cheap, but weak and heavy (compare to the Short Sword). Given their designed function in dealing with armored opponents, folding maces into the warhammer entry (a la scimitars and long swords) might be a better solution. Leaves more room on the table as well.

    Page 83: Couple of oddities. The SUV and Semi-Truck have the same Toughness; I'm not an expert but at first glance I feel like that's off somehow. Plus, it's weird that the Semi-Truck has a larger Size than the trailers they're pulling around.

    Page 83: Shermans are Size 8 but Panzer IVs are Size 7. Historically they were almost identical in Size, and historically the Sherman was notably more fragile; either the Sherman should be smaller (Size 7) or the Panzer's size should be increased to match (Size 8).

    Page 25: Wanted to highlight the issues of Two-Fisted not covering thrown weapons one last time; it's pretty much my biggest issue at the moment. The kinds of characters who would take Two-Fisted are almost always adept at throwing their knives/axes as well as using them in melee combat—the idea that a character should be well-versed in dual-wielding firearms on top of that in order to avoid the MAP for stabbing and throwing feels incongruous at best. The tropes of two-handed fighting feel like they're divided mechanically instead of thematically; one's melee and one's ranged, which might be mechanically sound, but as mentioned in PEG's design paradigms it doesn't feel like it reinforces the tropes of the different styles.

    The big two-handed tropes are using pairs of guns (which Two-Gun Kid has full coverage over) or using melee weapons, even at range (where Two-Fisted covers half of the trope but not the other). You have the twin axe fighter, twin knife fighter, the improvisational fighter that jump back and forth between bashing and throwing the weapons in either hand... all of those characters focus on both melee and throwing, but have little to no skill in using pistols or SMGs in both hands. Conversely, the two-gun character tends to stick to a single melee or thrown weapon when they're forced to use them.

    Yeah, that's pretty much it. The twin-dagger fighter won't be as good at throwing both of his daggers as a character who can shoot both of his guns and it feels incongruous.
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  • #2
    The Size listed for semi-trucks might be including the trailer. Personally, I treat the cab on its own as Size 5.

    I agree with your Two-Fisted/Two-Gun Kid argument, and your point about maces makes some sense. But as for everything else, I don't know enough about the subjects to comment one way or the other.


    • #3
      I totally disagree to 100% regarding the outlash of Two-fisted/Two gun kid. I really enjoy it how it is now.
      I also suspect that the majority does it as well, since we have only seen a few vocal persons talking about this in a negative way.
      My 2 cents


      • #4
        The discrepancy between the size of the semi and the trailer might be due to treating size as a means of indicating mass. A semi definitely has more mass than an empty trailer. I suppose other traits such as Mass and/or Density could be added to SW, but it wouldn't be worth the cost to the FFF factor IMO.


        • #5
          I'm in agreement that thrown weapons should be covered by Two-Fisted instead of Two-Gun Kid.
          "Did I fire six shots, or only five? Three? Seven. Whatever." - Unkempt Harold


          • Brickulos
            Brickulos commented
            Editing a comment

        • #6
          I'd like to think that the book is already locked down, going through professional editing, and being printed.


          • #7
            On the chance its not locked down yet...

            I very much agree Thrown Weapons should be handled with Two-Fisted not Two-Gun Kid.

            Also agree on the STR Min issues for "head armor". Probably they all should come down a step or two from their matching body armor.

            No strong feelings about the other items.


            • #8
              I'm kinda agnostic on the head armor stuff. I agree Doc's suggestion probably makes the most sense historically, but I don't really have much issue with the current system from a game balance perspective.

              Two Fisted could probably stand to cover thrown weapons, sure. If it doesn't though, it won't bother me all that much.

              I guess I'm pretty happy with SWADE overall, then.



              • #9
                Sorry my tank history buff is about to come out. This is assuming the Sherman mentioned is of the same time period that the PzIVJ was being used. Shermans weigh 5 tons more than the PzIV J and was taller (almost as tall as a Tiger II). Further, The Sherman was more heavily armored than the PZIV J thanks to its front armor being sloped (around 91mm frontally compared to the PzIVJ's 80mm) and the large mantlet led to it having anywhere between 127mm to 200mm armor (3.5in mantlet, 2in rotar shield, 3in front turret armor) on the front turret compared to the 50mm of the PzIVJ. They also had 38mm armor on the side compared to the 30mm of the PzIV. Sherman's were also according to actual statistics amassed from their use, not memoirs of a person who only saw the dead Shermans, one of, if not the most survivable tank in the war for crews. This was even brought further when they introduced wet ammo racks, smarter storage of ammo, and larger hatches. It was the PzV Panther, and PzVI Tiger Series (why does the book skip the iconic Tiger I) that were tougher than the Sherman, though they had their own issues.


                • #10
                  As mentioned, we'll still have a few tweaks right up till we send it to the printer. Some of these are worth tweaking, I think. Specifically:

                  Pot Helm: You're right. Adding a light (+3) and heavy version (+4), and tweaking a few other bits.

                  Maces: Leaving it as-is. We're happy with that one.

                  SUV/Semi: SUVs are built tough. Semis are big (including the trailer). Makes them about equal.

                  Shermans have more mass (around 33 metric tons vs 26 metric tons). Shermans weren't fragile...German guns were just better than our guns versus their tanks (and the PZ IV's Toughness/Armor is higher, as you'll note).

                  Two-Fisted / Two-Gun Kid: I get the trope, but I think it's more confusing to say that the "melee" Edge also covers the throwing ranged attack, but the "ranged" Edge doesn't cover the ranged attack. So I'm going to leave it as-is, but if I had a character in my game who specialized in two melee weapons...esp if they're usually the same ones...I'd almost certainly do exactly as you suggest as a house rule.

                  As a general rule though...Two-Fisted is melee, Two-Gun is ranged, and that's cleaner for most other situations.