Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

[SWADE 4.1] Dragon Tail Attacks

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • [SWADE 4.1] Dragon Tail Attacks

    The Dragon's (and Drake's, for that matter) tail lash says it can hit two targets at no penalty. Is this meaning no multi-action penalty? Or, like previous editions, does it also ignore scale penalties? Cover penalties? Inquiring minds wish to know.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Tail Lash
    The creature may make a free attack against up to two foes to its side or rear at no penalty.
    They say "free attack", which is on page 101. Notably includes, "Free attacks are a single attack unaltered by other Edges or combat options."
    So, they can do that each Turn with no special penalties, in addition to the normal action economy. Which is great for "boss" monsters. Presumably, penalties like Wounds, Fatigue, Cover, Lighting, etc. apply just like they would for First Strike.
    Last edited by ValhallaGH; 02-05-2019, 04:34 PM.
    I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
      They say "free attack", which is on page 101. Notably includes, "Free attacks are a single attack unaltered by other Edges or combat options."
      So, they can do that each Turn with no special penalties, in addition to the normal action economy. Which is great for "boss" monsters. Presumably, penalties like Wounds, Fatigue, Cover, Lighting, etc. apply just like they would for First Strike.
      If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that Scale Modifiers do not apply to Free Attacks? If so, I disagree. I think the "unaltered by... combat options" in the Free Attacks section is talking about things like Wild Attack, Called Shots, etc. Not 'automatic' things like Scale Modifiers. Otherwise Edges like First Strike and Counterattack become extremely potent for larger creatures, and withdrawing from melee from one very dangerous.

      As to the whether the dragon's tail lash is impacted by scale modifiers, I'd say it is ambiguous. Since previous versions called it out as being exempt from scale modifiers, and the current version does not, I'd tend to think the scale modifiers do apply. Maybe playtesting showed it to be too powerful to ignore scale modifiers? But I can also see the argument that if the only penalty the tail lash ignores is the MAP, why not say that instead of the more ambiguous "penalties"?



      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by JamesG View Post
        If I am understanding you correctly, you are saying that Scale Modifiers do not apply to Free Attacks?
        You are not understanding me.
        The Free Attack rule lets them do the Tail Lash in addition to the normal action economy.
        Tail Lash uses the phrase "at no penalty", implying that the Tail Lash ignores Scale.
        I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

        Comment


        • #5
          I don't think it's meant to imply Tail Lash ignores Scale - especially since that language has been there for much longer than "Swat" has existed.

          Could be more clearly worded, but I'm pretty sure RAI is Tail Lash ignores multi-action penalties, but not others (such as wounds or Scale).

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
            You are not understanding me.
            The Free Attack rule lets them do the Tail Lash in addition to the normal action economy.
            Tail Lash uses the phrase "at no penalty", implying that the Tail Lash ignores Scale.
            I agree that the tail lash attacks are outside the normal action economy. They neither suffer from or cause any MAP.

            But I'm not sure why you think they ignore Scale. You also wrote "Presumably, penalties like Wounds, Fatigue, Cover, Lighting, etc. apply just like they would for First Strike."

            Scale would also apply to First Strike. So I'm not sure why you would single out Scale as being a penalty Tail Lash ignores.

            I agree with mattprice516, it just ignores MAP.

            Comment


            • JamesG
              JamesG commented
              Editing a comment
              PS - It pains me to disagree with you ValhallaGH, since I have great respect for you.

          • #7
            Being a Free Attack doesn't automatically eliminate Scale. It puts the attack outside the normal Action rules, so MAP is ignored, but doesn't affect Scale.

            That's a thing that needs to be said.

            The language specifically used by Tail Lash suggests that it ignores Scale.
            The Swat ability does not mention Tail Lash, implying that Scale applies to Tail Lash.
            Given those two pieces of information, I conclude that Scale applies to Tail Lash. If Swat was not present then I would conclude differently.
            I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

            Comment


            • JamesG
              JamesG commented
              Editing a comment
              OK, sounds like you, mattprice516, and I are now all in agreement that RAW (currently), scale penalties do apply to Tail Lash.

              I'm still not sure that as RAI though. If they intend that Scale not apply to Tail Lash, they should list Tail Lash in the Swat entry for Dragon, and add a Swat ability to Drake that lists Tail Lash. They should probably just remove the confusing "at no penalty." wording from Tail Lash, since by making it a free attack it by definition has no MAP.
          Working...
          X