[SWADE 4.1] Some Minor Issues

[fanchergw]

The book is coming together very nicely, and should be an excellent final product. Here are a few minor issues that I hope can get addressed.

Pg 12: Android - "The example here mimics humans in most ways and can generally pass for them when desired (and not examined by a physician)." Later - "OUTSIDER (Major): Androids subtract 2 from Persuasion rolls when interacting with anyone besides other androids, and have no legal rights in most areas (they’re generally considered property)." If not discernible by casual inspection, then how and when does Outsider get applied?

Pg 18: "Bite (1): The race has fangs that cause Strength+d4 damage" and Pg 19: "Horns (1): The being has a horn or horns that cause Str+d4 damage", which cost 1 Point. VS.
Pg 18: "Claws (1): The race has claws that cause Str+d4 damage," which costs 2 points. Same exact effect as Bite and Horns, but costs twice as much. Misprint? Should the Value listed for Claws be "1/2/3"?

Pg 23: Blind - any limitations to the free Edge, such as Rank or other qualifications? None are mentioned.

Pg 55: Gear - "Purchase up to $500 worth of equipment." The starting funds in a game are not always $500, and can also be modified by Edges or spending Skill points. Perhaps restate as something like, "Purchase up to your starting funds worth of equipment."

Pg 75: M-16 - the "20/30" under Shots is not explained. Add to Notes?

Pg 95: Incapacitation - "If Incapacitated by damage or injury, he must make an immediate Vigor roll:" Is the roll modified by Wounds or not?

Pg 100: Disarm - "The attacker must first hit the object or the opponent’s limb or hand (see Called Shots on page 98)." Hitting objects is under Breaking Things, also on pg 98. Reference should be added. Also, should there be a Scale Modifier for hitting weapons and other held items?

Pg 101: Ganging Up - "Each additional adjacent foe (who isn’t Stunned)..." Do Shaken foes now add to Gang Up? It only lists Stunned foes as being excluded.

Pg 117: Attacks - how does Scale figure into attacks on vehicles?

Pg 155: Barrier - "DAMAGE (+1): The barrier causes 2d4 damage to anyone who contacts it." Does Damage replace Hardness, or apply additionally? If it stacks, there should be a modifier to remove Hardness; a wall of fire should not be a physical barrier in most cases.

Pg 198: Running the Game - "You might have to track a few Wild Card villains’ Wounds, but other than that, the foes are up and acting normally, Shaken, or removed from play." I'm not sure this is strictly true, since there are now a half-dozen or more statuses to keep track of: Shaken, Stunned, Bound, Entangled, Distracted, and Vulnerable, at the very least.

Regards, Gordon

[DoctorBoson]

I considered that same discrepancy with claws. There's two important things—one, it can be used in both hands (which means Two-Fisted works; Bite and Horns don't get that). Two, the damage from Claws stacks with Martial Artist and Brawler/Bruiser. I think the cost increase is warranted due to those circumstances.

[fanchergw]

I will concede the second point, DoctorBoson, since that is significant - if someone takes those edges. If not, then it is meaningless. (Personally, I see this as having more to do with the edges than with the Claws, but that's a POV thing.)

With regard to the first point, doing so takes a -2/-4 modifier from MAP and off-hand. We have been repeatedly told since the very first Test Drive that even a +1 or -1 modifier is a Big Deal, so -2/-4 is Huge. And it takes 2 full edges to get rid of those modifiers, so I'm not sure that this should add significantly to the cost.

Regards, Gordon

[Gordon]

Angels no longer add up to 6 race points thanks to new flight costs (at least not at flight pace 24)

[werenimal]

On Page 21? That's probably intentional, since guardians only ever added up to 4.

[kaptain]

Angels have Flight at Pace 12 [for 4 points]. They total a net +4 Race points overall, as intended in the example

[Gordon]

It was 24 in 4.0. I didn’t have the latest build on my iPad apparently

[ValhallaGH]

Pthere are now a half-dozen or more statuses to keep track of: Shaken, Stunned, Bound, Entangled, Distracted, and Vulnerable, at the very least.

Variations of those were already in the rules. -2 Parry from Wild Attack, -2 Parry from Rapid Attack, Prone, grappled, entangled or bound by entangle, etc.
Now they've all been codified, standardized, centralized, and unified. It's easier to keep track of them now.

[fanchergw]

So "up, down, or off the table" hasn't actually been true for quite a while, then. Not sure why that phrase is still used.

Regards, Gordon

[ValhallaGH]

fanchergw It never has been, in the way you mean. Even the first edition had a lot of quirky stuff to track that wasn't damage.

But damage for Extras very much is "Up, Down, or Of the Table". That's one of the reasons Shaken was changed a few years ago. It also guides changes going forward, trying to simplify rules interactions to be as easy to remember as possible.

[paladin2019]

Telekinesis Backwards Compatibility

p170: Removing Spirit from the calculation for lifting power results in a compatibility issue with Savage Rifts. I recommend either reinstating the SWD calculation (Spirit x10 lbs, x50 on a Raise) or changing the power's Strength to equal Spirit, with +1 die type on a Raise (or even +1 die type for each raise). Then the Mega-variant still works with its lifting improvement of Spirit+4.

[DoctorBoson]

I'm pretty sure that Rifts is getting an Adventure update. SWADE wasn't put together with the intent of not having to update any existing content—if that was the case then we would just keep using Deluxe.

[paladin2019]

Exactly. A change like this means it won't have to be and it keeps the power at the same general Strength level.

[DoctorBoson]

paladin2019 ... no, Rifts is already getting an update put together. It would need it whether or not telekinesis was the same—too many other points of balance in the system have been adjusted. The entire powers system was overhauled significantly which means Mega Powers need to be adjusted to accommodate; a few Edges either no longer make sense in the new context of the game or are unnecessary, anything to do with Charisma is out the window... TK is fine as it is in SWADE, and Rifts is going to be updated for more reasons than just one power regardless.

[alfarobl]

p87 Wild Cards & Extras: this section really only explains Wild Cards and if you have never played Deluxe are going to have some issues understanding what really an extra is regarding rules or when using allied extras that join you.

[JamesG]

Pg 101: Ganging Up - "Each additional adjacent foe (who isn’t Stunned)..." Do Shaken foes now add to Gang Up? It only lists Stunned foes as being excluded.

Shaken foes have always contributed to Gang Up. Or at least they did in SWD. I didn't save all the iterations of SWADE so I can't go back and check all of them to see if this changed at any point.

[fanchergw]

I checked SWEE, and you're right. I suspect that this is something we house ruled and I either didn't remember or didn't realize that it was a house rule.

Regards, Gordon

[ironfort]

I am not sure apart from a referee catching it, that there is anything stopping a character with a Negative Race Ability, say "Can't Speak" and also selecting the major hindrance "Mute". I am sure that there are other ones.

[Mogge]

Thats where the GM steps in and say No.

[ValhallaGH]

ironfort Yeah, but Savage Worlds has a lot of those. That's by intent - GM attention is required.
Hilariously, the character is wasting a Hindrance in that case. Sure he's "mute" but he already "can't speak", so he loses out on any bennies for being Mute.

[kaptain]

Shouldn't the Iron Jaw Edge be better suited to a Background Edge rather than a Combat Edge, as I don't see a character suddenly "growing" an Iron Jaw

[ValhallaGH]

Body Hardening is a real thing, training your body to absorb force without injury.
And its not like it's a straight Toughness bonus, like Brawler provides. It's a bonus to Soak rolls.

[PEGThomas]

Also, keep in mind how some Edges may be obtained. If it was a Background Edge you coudn't choose it wth Warrior's Gift power or the High Adventure setting rule.

[Jounichi]

Apparently, someone on facebook has complained that several of the modern rifles, such as the M1 Garand (.30-06) and the hunting rifle (.308), are underpowered given the known penetration power of their rifles. The gist is they're upset over the perpetuation of certain myths and want to see those corrected.

[Mogge]

Im pretty sure PEGinc cant please each and every people complaining about stuff.
I think they have done a Stellar job so far that have tried to please as many as possible.

[Jounichi]

Hey, I'm not complaining. But they're obstinant about not posting here, which I find odd. In any case, I find it relatively minor. I made my own weapons table for Deadlands, and I may still use that over whatever they come up with for the next Kickstarter.

They're also inconsistent over what to be upset over. Just going by bullet energy, they should be up in arms over much more.