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Disarm is Terrible in Melee (with math)

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  • JamesG
    commented on 's reply
    Jounichi's post missed one key part, which DoctorBoson commented on.

    When targeting the weapon, "the attacker rolls damage normally for an item (no raise effect or Aces, see Breaking Things, page 98). The defender must make a Strength roll equal to the damage or drop the item."

    (The quote is direct from SWADE 4.1, but SWADE 4.0 was the same).

    PS - love your suggestion to use a Test for finesse based disarms and the SWADE Disarm rules for more brute force methods. Consider it stolen.

  • Freemage
    commented on 's reply
    But you're mixing up the two types of 'disarm' mentioned in Jounichi's post.

    If you're attacking the object, it's just a 'break things' roll with no resistance at all. That would be Breaking Things rules, and thus no explosion on damage.

    If you're attacking the hand/arm, they get to resist dropping the item, but then the damage dice against them CAN explode, because it's really just a specific-effect Called Shot.

  • dfrankovic
    commented on 's reply
    Fair enough.

  • Lysenda
    commented on 's reply
    Damage to break thing doesn't explode. p98

  • dfrankovic
    commented on 's reply
    What? No.
    "All Trait and damage rolls in Savage Worlds are open-ended." pg88

  • DoctorBoson
    commented on 's reply
    Well, the damage dice can't explode; the Strength die can. It'll be difficult to hold on but I like that personally (especially given the difficulty to hit).

  • Lysenda
    replied
    With the V4 disarm rules, when you hit the weapon the target has to roll strength against the damage done. Since melee damage are usually STR+dx, it will be finally a target STR versus STR+dx . Isn't it too much ?

    I like better Freemage proposal with disarm a option with a Test. (very intuitive)

    Leave a comment:


  • paladin2019
    commented on 's reply
    Just Fighting vs. Fighting. Brutes don't necessarily know the leverage tricks and how to counter them.

    No damage, that's not the point of the maneuver.

  • Freemage
    replied
    Originally posted by Current SWADE Page 108
    If the attacker wins the opposed roll, he
    can choose to make his foe Distracted or
    Vulnerable (see page 203). If he wins with
    a raise, the target is also Shaken or there may
    be other subjective effects as the GM allows,
    such as a tripped foe being knocked prone.
    (Emphasis mine, of course.)

    If the player wants, I'm going to let a Fighting or Athletics Test against Agility (against Strength if you're using Athletics and have Brute) Disarm with a Raise instead of Shaking them. On a success, you knocked their weapon out of alignment, either throwing off their next action (Distracted) or leaving them open to a follow-up from yourself or someone else (Vulnerable). Fast, simple, already part of the rules, and gives a pretty good cinematic portrayal of the trope, IMNSHO. (The Fighting d12 vs. Agility d6 from the OP becomes a solid assurance of a Success, and betting odds on a Raise--average 4.2 vs. 8.4, if I'm remembering the math of such things correctly.)

    The Disarm rules in the book then become what you use when you're trying to destroy your opponent's weapon, or both hurt AND disarm them at the same time.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christopher Brady
    commented on 's reply
    Does it do damage?

  • MichaelDawn
    commented on 's reply
    Right?! Just Athletics vs Strength or Agilty. Fighting if you are using a weapon.

  • paladin2019
    replied
    Oh, for....

    Just make it an opposed Fighting roll, already. Add penalties to flavor if that ends up too easy in play-testing.

    Leave a comment:


  • Christopher Brady
    replied
    Hmm, so I was reviewing a lot of the older pulps, an disarming is a LOT easier than the game lists, even with this rule. I wonder if there's something there, like an Edge or something.

    Leave a comment:


  • Jounichi
    commented on 's reply
    Ah, missed that part. Still, that adds another level of complexity. A damage roll with higher a mean might mean it's better to attack the weapon instead of attacking the person.

  • DoctorBoson
    commented on 's reply
    It does explicitly state that the defender must make a Strength roll equal to the damage or drop the item if you target the weapon.

    If attacking the target, then the Strength TN is still 4 (though at penalties as you noted).
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