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  • HeWhoMustNotBeNamed
    started a topic New Kevlar

    New Kevlar

    Kevlar in Adventurer's Edition V3 (updated on Jan 1, 2019) is... bad. Armor *and* damage reduction seems overkill. It makes firearms obsolete as weapons against any foe with kevlar and/or a ballistic shield. (Same criticism for future/energy weapons vs energy skin armors.) Off the top of my head, adding Hardy vs ballistic adds to the protection without giving an effective +4 toughness (not armor) vs ballistic. And does that also apply when a weapon has enough AP to punch through the armor? (I would think so, but it isn't actually clear in the text.)

  • Vasant
    replied
    While the SWD kevlar was definitely too strong for my taste, I'm actually pretty happy so far with how Kevlar works now. We're playing in a game where assault rifles are very rarely encountered and that seemed almost laughable with SWDs kevlar while it feels about right with SWADE V3s armor. And it's less complicated, too.
    (Talking from a fiction point of view here, not realism)

    Leave a comment:


  • ValhallaGH
    replied
    Welcome to the forum!

    Originally posted by HeWhoMustNotBeNamed View Post
    Kevlar in Adventurer's Edition V3 (updated on Jan 1, 2019) is... bad. Armor *and* damage reduction seems overkill. It makes firearms obsolete as weapons against any foe with kevlar and/or a ballistic shield. (Same criticism for future/energy weapons vs energy skin armors.) Off the top of my head, adding Hardy vs ballistic adds to the protection without giving an effective +4 toughness (not armor) vs ballistic. And does that also apply when a weapon has enough AP to punch through the armor? (I would think so, but it isn't actually clear in the text.)
    You're overstating it a bit.
    An M-16 deals 2d8 damage with AP 2, averaging 10.2 after Acing.
    A soldier ally (page 112) with a Kevlar vest has Toughness 7(2).
    If the soldier was wearing a Hardy Kevlar vest then he'd be Incapacitated by a single shot. The AP 2 would negate the armor, leaving 10.2 damage against Toughness 5.
    With the Reduction Kevlar Vest, the AP still penetrates the armor but the -4 damage means that it's effectively 6.2 versus Toughness 5, leaving the soldier Shaken but active. A second, equal, hit will put him down, but for now he's still in the fight.
    The additional 4.2 average damage from a Raise on the Shooting is still going to be lethal most of the time.

    Personally, I find the 4 to be a bit much. The mechanic is sound, but the value is a bit too high.
    The M2 deals 2d10 damage, averaging 12.2 after Acing. At AP 4, it's more than enough to bypass both the Kevlar vest and the vest with inserts. Even so, the -4 damage reduces the average to 8.2, meaning that an ally soldier wearing Kevlar, that is hit by a .50 BMG can expect to survive. That's crazy!
    If the reduction is 3 then the average is 9.2, enough to Incapacitate a soldier but not an experienced soldier. I can accept that. Meanwhile, the M-16 example is comparing an effective 7.2 versus Toughness 5, leaving the soldier Shaken but active.
    If the reduction is 2 then the .50 averages 10.2 damage and does a Wound to both normal and experienced soldiers. The M-16 would deal 8.2, and be close to dealing a Wound to our example soldier, while an AK-47 would be dealing 9.2 and causing a Wound about half the time. Upgrade the vest to a vest with inserts and the soldier is effective Toughness 7 against 8.2 and 9.2 damage.

    Overall, I think the Ballistic Protection rule works fine. It just needs to be cut down to 2 damage instead of the current four.

    Leave a comment:


  • DoctorBoson
    replied
    That's the point of kevlar. You can stab it, shoot it with an arrow, beat it with a bat—it's better than wearing nothing but it's not designed to protect against those kinds of threats. The damage reduction, though, provides a specialized benefit against firearms, though. It's hardly obsolete—you're not invincible and enough bullets will still kill you, but kevlar will help against a double-tap or stray few rounds that find their way to you better than any medieval armor can.

    Even then, a direct hit (raise) from a 9mm pistol is going to Shake someone (Toughness 5) in a normal kevlar vest more often than not, and wound them with 36% of their shots. Any raises with most assault rifles will be causing wounds 56% of the time (and more glancing regular hits will still wound a quarter of the time)—as opposed to the 56% of regular hits and 86% of raises without kevlar.

    And it should apply against any modern firearms, even if the AP is enough to completely bypass the vest. Even if you're hit by an unlucky .50, it takes a grazing hit from 72% to wound to 40%. Raises are bad either way, though—from 91% to about 70%. Either way, you'll almost certainly be left Shaken and if you do avoid damage from one hit you'll almost certainly be less lucky on the second.

    Leave a comment:

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