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Social Conflicts in SWADE

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  • Social Conflicts in SWADE

    What do you think of the new Social Conflicts in SWADE? They seem to be much harder now – even three successes on an opposed roll don't get you more than "not completely failing" now, while before, three successes (that weren't even necessary opposed) already got you a good result.
    Are these more focussed on teamwork now instead of providing spotlight to a single character with Charisma +8 or were Social Conflicts perceived as too easy even without Charisma?

  • #2
    I approve.
    They function the same way, but the results chart has been tweaked. Which matched my own experiences with the rules. They worked well but the best results were a bit too easy to get.

    The new version uses the same structure and rules, but now has a more difficult results table.
    And interpreting the results table is the easiest thing for a GM to tweak to make a specific Social Conflict more or less difficult.
    I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
      The new version uses the same structure and rules, but now has a more difficult results table.
      And interpreting the results table is the easiest thing for a GM to tweak to make a specific Social Conflict more or less difficult.
      Wouldn't it make more sense (mechanically) to use modifiers for the rolls instead of changing the result table, though?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Vasant View Post
        Wouldn't it make more sense (mechanically) to use modifiers for the rolls instead of changing the result table, though?
        Modifying the roll reflects the quality of the specific argument. Structuring it to appeal to the arbiter's goals, to align with the arbiter's cultural values, or to use really excellent logic can all be worth a circumstance bonus to the roll.

        Modifying the results table reflects the bias of the arbiter. If the characters already have a lot of good will with the arbiter - maybe they saved the king's family or they've done a lot of great RP to build rapport with the jury or the trade partners really want to successfully negotiate a trade deal - then the GM can reflect this by giving making the results table easier. Conversely, if the characters have a terrible relationship with the arbiter then they might be arguing against a bias that means they need to be even more successful to get a good result, so the GM modifies the results table to make true success even harder.
        I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
          Modifying the roll reflects the quality of the specific argument. Structuring it to appeal to the arbiter's goals, to align with the arbiter's cultural values, or to use really excellent logic can all be worth a circumstance bonus to the roll.

          Modifying the results table reflects the bias of the arbiter. If the characters already have a lot of good will with the arbiter - maybe they saved the king's family or they've done a lot of great RP to build rapport with the jury or the trade partners really want to successfully negotiate a trade deal - then the GM can reflect this by giving making the results table easier. Conversely, if the characters have a terrible relationship with the arbiter then they might be arguing against a bias that means they need to be even more successful to get a good result, so the GM modifies the results table to make true success even harder.
          I disagree – Outsider, for example, gives a penalty on the roll. To me, "arbiter is biased because you're an outsider and he doesn't like you" is no different than "arbiter is biased because you insulted him in the past and he doesn't like you" or something similar.
          However, since tuning the difficulty of Dramatic Tasks is done via changing the required Tokens (and the mechanics of Dramatic Tasks and Social Conflicts are closely related), I don't think there's anything wrong with your approach mechanically. Just doesn't fit in with other modifiers to me.

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          • #6
            I have a doubt in the reading (p143)

            First column, in CONFLIT ROUNDS: ..." If a rival argues against her, the roll is opposed by his Persuasion instead."

            Second column in the Example: To Arms! " .. Worse, she’s opposed by his slimy wizard,who argues against the idea every round(Supporting the baron’s Spirit rolls)."

            Is it two different situation ? Or just a choice to support the spirit roll in place to using persuasion directly in opposed roll? (i could think the first case, someone whisper something to counter your argument to the one that you want to convince, and second case someone directly oppose you)





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            • ValhallaGH
              ValhallaGH commented
              Editing a comment
              I think it's supposed to be two different situations, but you should post this on the Feedback forum when it reopens.

          • #7
            Originally posted by Vasant View Post
            I disagree – Outsider, for example, gives a penalty on the roll.
            It does penalize the roll, because the character doesn't fit into normal society. That can manifest as alien patterns of courtesy, strange speech patterns, off-putting wardrobe, or a dozen other methods that diminish the impact of your words.
            If the arbiter was also a huge racist against the Outsider then they'd be doubly screwed in a Social Conflict. Penalized on their rolls for a jarring performance - due to the hindrance - and needing more successes than usual because their arguments have to overcome all that irrational hatred. At that point it's probably easier to just go away, or kill everyone, than resolve things peacefully; a dynamic I find fairly realistic.
            I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
              It does penalize the roll, because the character doesn't fit into normal society. That can manifest as alien patterns of courtesy, strange speech patterns, off-putting wardrobe, or a dozen other methods that diminish the impact of your words.
              If the arbiter was also a huge racist against the Outsider then they'd be doubly screwed in a Social Conflict. Penalized on their rolls for a jarring performance - due to the hindrance - and needing more successes than usual because their arguments have to overcome all that irrational hatred. At that point it's probably easier to just go away, or kill everyone, than resolve things peacefully; a dynamic I find fairly realistic.
              The description of Outsider presumes that the society is racist, xenophobic or similar, so I don't think that it's a stretch (or an additional factor) to assume that the arbiter is like that as well. Edit: Oh, and also, Outsider gives a penalty even when someone else (not-outsidery) defends someone with the Outsider hindrance, so it's not (just) about the performance of the one rolling.
              Anyway, that was not the topic here (neither are typos or feedback). I'd appreciate it if you'd open a new thread if you want to discuss that further (I don't want to shoot you down here, I just like to avoid opening a new thread just to find out that you don't like to add anything else).
              Last edited by Vasant; 01-02-2019, 09:09 PM.

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              • ValhallaGH
                ValhallaGH commented
                Editing a comment
                Eh, it's your thread.
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