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SWADE Young Hindrance

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  • SWADE Young Hindrance

    Can anyone tell me why the Young hindrance was changed. I always hated that it was a hindrance that you had to buy off but buying it off caused you to lose the benefits and not the penalties. A character starting as a kid alway ended up behind everyone else in skills and attributes with the extra bennies once they bought it off. I liked the new version of the hindrance and they changed it back.

  • #2
    But that's not how the old hindrance worked

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Geomarshal View Post
      Can anyone tell me why the Young hindrance was changed. I always hated that it was a hindrance that you had to buy off but buying it off caused you to lose the benefits and not the penalties.
      You never had to buy it off. At 16 or so, the character stopped getting the extra benny. All other penalties remained.
      It was crippling and unfair, but it didn't cost as much as you claim it did.
      Originally posted by Geomarshal View Post
      I liked the new version of the hindrance and they changed it back.
      Eh, not really.
      They did cut an Attribute point and two skill points. Which does suck.
      They added back the extra Benny.
      They have an extreme version for very young characters, who lose another Attribute and must take Small, but get +2 Benny.

      BUT IT NEVER ENDS.
      If a Young character makes it to 45 years old in game, she still gets +1/+2 Benny per session. Just like she still lacks 2 starting skill points and 1/2 attribute points.


      Want to talk about it? Cool, sounds like a good and possibly necessary discussion.
      But talk about it accurately. Inaccurate statements are generally dismissed out of hand by readers.
      I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

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      • #4
        I'd probably let the player decide when their character was no longer Young. At that point they lose the benny, but gain the attribute and skill points (because they've grown up and matured). Otherwise I think it works well enough.

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        • #5
          I much preferred the version from 2.1. The new 3.0 version feels very punishing. I will still play child characters I just won't take the hindrance.

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          • #6
            The new version's no more punishing than many other major hindrances. You're two advances behind, but gain a benny (worth about one advance). That puts you a net of one advance behind, just like Bad Luck and Yellow.

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            • #7
              I like better the 3.0 rules. For a long period campaign, like JackMann said, when the character is no longer young or very young, the hindrance is nullified. I will personally let the PJ also take a new hindrance in replacement.

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              • #8
                Yeah you can buy off hindrances with an advancement and GM permission.

                What you no longer get is free buffs if your game has lots of time skips (last edition), and being a child is rightfully super punishing.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post

                  You never had to buy it off. At 16 or so, the character stopped getting the extra benny. All other penalties remained.
                  It was crippling and unfair, but it didn't cost as much as you claim it did.
                  I was mistaken about that part but a character was still two advances behind in Attributes and at least 2 1/2 advances in skills. That is way too extreme.

                  Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
                  ​​
                  BUT IT NEVER ENDS.
                  If a Young character makes it to 45 years old in game, she still gets +1/+2 Benny per session. Just like she still lacks 2 starting skill points and 1/2 attribute points.

                  Want to talk about it? Cool, sounds like a good and possibly necessary discussion.
                  But talk about it accurately. Inaccurate statements are generally dismissed out of hand by readers.
                  I would never let a character who is 45 years old keep the young hindrance anymore than I would let a character who was permanently enlarged keep the small hindrance. Just because the rules don’t say that you have buy it off shouldn’t override common sense.

                  I much preferred the Kid hindrance in Deadlands Classic.that you bought off and the penalties went away.

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                  • #10
                    At the moment the Hindrance is –1 Attribute Point (–2 points), –2 Skill Points (–2 points), and an extra Benny (+2 points). That's –2 points for a Major Hindrance, perfectly appropriate—it's just as crippling as anything else, and stays with you just as long. Blind is a permanent –6 to almost everything, One Arm never goes away, Heroic is a trait characters take to the grave... those Hindrances pretty much stick around and always have those characters at a disadvantage, and others like Clueless, Hesitant, and Suspicious still encourage the GM to require characters to narratively justify spending Advances to buy those Hindrances off ("with the GM's permission, and if it makes sense"). The only difference is that Young takes away points instead of imposing penalties, which means its very easy to tweak what the character is or isn't good at—a very flexible Hindrance.

                    That said, I think it's perfectly reasonable to buy the Hindrance off as narratively appropriate. Once a character reaches an appropriate age (18? 21?) in game, likely through some larger time skips, they can save up two Advances to "buy off" Young and get a few Attribute/Skill points back at the cost of a Benny. (Lot of stories leave young characters for a little while only to have them come back, which leads to comments like "wow look how much he's grown," and "seems like just last week he was only this tall.")

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                    • ValhallaGH
                      ValhallaGH commented
                      Editing a comment
                      And buying off Hindrances is core now, so this is probably the intent.

                  • #11
                    I preferred the 2.1 version of Young myself, but the new one is still fine. Young is no longer the most punishing Hindrance in the game, and it's in line with most other Major Hindrances. The original version was worse than Blind in a lot of ways, since it effectively put you 5 advances in the hole in exchange for being lucky. The only semi-okay thing about original!Young was that it bought itself off automatically, but it still wasn't worth it.

                    My big problem with v3 Young vs v2.1 Young is that the newest version of the Major Hindrance takes up 3 out of your 4 Hindrance point slots automatically, since you have to take Small if you have Young (Major). Bundling it in with Young was a more elegant solution, I thought, and left a character the room to have another Major Hindrance or two Minor Hindrances of their choice. Like I said, v3 is fine, but I liked v2.1 better.

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                    • #12
                      I don't understand the problem. Major Young plus Small is 3 of your 4 Hindrances you can get points for, but nothing's stopping you from taking more than 4 points of Hindrances. As a matter of fact, it's explicitly allowed. You just don't get more build points than the 4.

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                      • Freemage
                        Freemage commented
                        Editing a comment
                        It's a split in mindset between fans of the game--some view Hindrances as a means to gain build points; others see them as a benny-generator during play. (Obviously, they serve both functions; this is a matter of which is 'primary' in a given player's mind). Those of the former school tend to discount the idea of 'taking extra Hindrances', while those of the latter school are happy to do so if it doesn't cripple them.

                      • Jounichi
                        Jounichi commented
                        Editing a comment
                        At least Young doesn't say Small doesn't give you any points.
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