Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Invisibility and Stealth

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Demagod
    started a topic Invisibility and Stealth

    Invisibility and Stealth

    The Invisibility power makes you invisible unless enemies find you with a Notice roll with a -4 penality (-6 with a raise).
    I was wondering, is this Notice roll opposed to a Stealth roll of the invisible character, or do you simply need to roll at least 4 like a normal trait test?

  • Roberius Rex
    commented on 's reply
    Excellent points on the trappings and narrative of the situation!

  • ValhallaGH
    replied
    Originally posted by Demagod View Post
    I can't find these rules on the manual, what version are you referring too? I have Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition, and I'm fairly sure there isn't a Vulnerable status at all and the Drop isn't possible once combat has been initiated, so maybe we are talking about different editions of the game.
    In Deluxe the most relevant rule is The Last Step under Stealth. Within 5", Stealth is always opposed by Notice, even if the other characters are unaware.
    The Last Step is also plenty of justification for allowing guards and others to try and Notice the invisible character. If he's not rolling Stealth then they roll against TN 4, with the penalty for invisible.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mootaz
    replied
    He's talking about Savage Worlds Adventure Edition (SWADE, the new edition), not Deluxe.

    Leave a comment:


  • Demagod
    replied
    Originally posted by paladin2019 View Post
    Here's this from p35. "Sneak Attack: Sneaking up close enough to make a melee attack always requires an opposed Stealth roll versus the target’s Notice, whether the guard is actively looking for trouble or not. If successful, the victim is Vulnerable (see page 100). With a raise, the attacker has The Drop (page 100)." If your player wants to exploit his invisibility, he has to take an additional action every attack to do it. Otherwise, the target only has to roll a 4 (with the -4/-6 penalty) on his Notice to be able to hit back. As written, it seems that without specifically acting to use Stealth, the attacker still has to hit the target's Parry with no special bonus. This includes the Assassin bonus to damage because the attacker chose not to make the target Vulnerable or attempt to get The Drop.

    As far as the opposition goes, why do you want to raise their Notice? You have a character specialized in sneaking around. Let him. That way, when a particular guard does notice him, he knows it's either dumb luck or this guard isn't a normal mook. Alternately, don't raise their Notice but show that they expect invisible intruders. Have flour/fine silt/etc. spread around to show footprints. Marbles and creaky floorboards (nightingale walks) works, too. These are things that can conceivably give the guards a bonus on their Notice rolls to mitigate invisibility. You're still making the point to the player that these guys are run of the mill goons, they expect and are ready for shenanigans.

    Again, let the player do what they're spec'd for. Save spoiling their build for times when you want to send a message about the extraordinary competency of the opposition.
    I can't find these rules on the manual, what version are you referring too? I have Savage Worlds Deluxe Edition, and I'm fairly sure there isn't a Vulnerable status at all and the Drop isn't possible once combat has been initiated, so maybe we are talking about different editions of the game.
    By the way I completely agree that enemies shouldn't have boosted stats just to counter the player's strenghts, that's why I was asking for ideas. The idea of preparation with flour is interesting, thanks

    Leave a comment:


  • Almagest
    replied
    The Super Power Companion states that if the invisible character attacks or otherwise makes his presence know (like standing in the rain), the penalties to attack him are halved and there’s no need for a Notice check. It’s a very important rule, should be in the core book.

    Leave a comment:


  • Soulliard
    replied
    Sneaking in combat is a free action. That said, once the character has engaged in combat, I would not allow them to regain stealth unless they took some time to back away from the fighting, even with invisibility.

    Leave a comment:


  • paladin2019
    replied
    Here's this from p35. "Sneak Attack: Sneaking up close enough to make a melee attack always requires an opposed Stealth roll versus the target’s Notice, whether the guard is actively looking for trouble or not. If successful, the victim is Vulnerable (see page 100). With a raise, the attacker has The Drop (page 100)." If your player wants to exploit his invisibility, he has to take an additional action every attack to do it. Otherwise, the target only has to roll a 4 (with the -4/-6 penalty) on his Notice to be able to hit back. As written, it seems that without specifically acting to use Stealth, the attacker still has to hit the target's Parry with no special bonus. This includes the Assassin bonus to damage because the attacker chose not to make the target Vulnerable or attempt to get The Drop.

    As far as the opposition goes, why do you want to raise their Notice? You have a character specialized in sneaking around. Let him. That way, when a particular guard does notice him, he knows it's either dumb luck or this guard isn't a normal mook. Alternately, don't raise their Notice but show that they expect invisible intruders. Have flour/fine silt/etc. spread around to show footprints. Marbles and creaky floorboards (nightingale walks) works, too. These are things that can conceivably give the guards a bonus on their Notice rolls to mitigate invisibility. You're still making the point to the player that these guys are run of the mill goons, they expect and are ready for shenanigans.

    Again, let the player do what they're spec'd for. Save spoiling their build for times when you want to send a message about the extraordinary competency of the opposition.
    Last edited by paladin2019; 01-02-2019, 03:35 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ValhallaGH
    replied
    Also, if the BBEG knows his foes include magical-super-ninja then his minions will be carrying grenades, alchemist fire, or other genre-appropriate area weapon.
    "Crap! Steve just died! Quick, everyone grenade Steve's corpse, we might catch The Ghost," is a legitimate and viable strategy if the boss-minion has some way to monitor the health and condition of his lesser minions.
    Don't forget environmental tricks, like shallow puddles, squeaky closed doors, and light drifting clouds of dust that can all justify why Extras are looking for an invisible character or have located the character.

    Oh! The Trappings of a power matter. How does the invisibility work in world?
    Does he just stop reflecting visible light? Infravision would halve the relevant penalties and provide a way to know he's present.
    Is it a Deus Ex glass-shield cloaking device? That still emits a ton of electro-magnetic radiation that can be detected by various systems, including the smart eye augmentation.
    Is it chameleon skin? Again, Infravision would help a lot. Also, the character kind of needs to be near-naked for that to be useful.
    Wrapped in shadows? Really bright lights may not show the character but they can ensure foes know something is there.
    Mental aversion, causing the mind to ignore the character? Golems, robots, and other mindless or psychic immunities would counter it.
    Etc.
    Last edited by ValhallaGH; 01-02-2019, 03:11 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • wmarshal
    replied
    I'd think that once the invisible stealthy assassin attacks he's no longer being stealthy. After the attack I'd require him to take an action to use stealth again.

    Leave a comment:


  • Demagod
    replied
    Hi, thanks for the answers!
    I'm a bit worried because one of my players has a character with d8 on Stealth and the Assassin and Thief edges plus an Arcane Background. If he picks Invisibility and stacks a -4 penality on the enemy's Notice on top of his already high Stealth, doesn'it mean that he becomes virtually unhittable unless the enemy gets an extremely lucky roll or a lucky AoE strike? I don't want to make all enemies have ridicolous Notice stats like d12+2 just to make him balanced with the rest of the group.
    Last edited by Demagod; 01-02-2019, 10:42 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • ValhallaGH
    replied
    Welcome to the forum!
    Originally posted by Demagod View Post
    The Invisibility power makes you invisible unless enemies find you with a Notice roll with a -4 penality (-6 with a raise).
    I was wondering, is this Notice roll opposed to a Stealth roll of the invisible character, or do you simply need to roll at least 4 like a normal trait test?
    Both. It depends upon the situation.
    If the invisible character isn't being sneaky then - assuming the observer has a reason to look - the Notice is just a simple roll at [penalty].
    If the invisible character is rolling Stealth then - assuming the observer has a reason to look - the Notice roll is opposed and at [penalty].

    Leave a comment:


  • Soulliard
    replied
    It would just be a normal Notice roll, unless the invisible character was trying to be stealthy.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X