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Updates to Companion Opinions

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  • Updates to Companion Opinions

    For those veterans out there who know the rules and math of the system--in your opinion, of what you know of SWADE -- which companions do you think NEED the most rework now?

    As in, if I was to start a new campaign/game and use a companion which one (if any) could be used as is. Could you rank them please (as in most 'broken' to least?)

  • #2
    SWADE hasn't changed that list much. What needed update still needs an update.

    1. Fantasy
    2. Gap for emphasis
    3. Horror
    4. Supers
    5. Sci-fi

    Fantasy suffers from being really old and most of the important bits are in the base book since Deluxe. That and magic items that can give a +3 bonus is really odd.


    • ValhallaGH
      ValhallaGH commented
      Editing a comment
      "That and magic items that can give a +3 bonus is really odd."
      I see what you did there.

      It's not that strange. D&D 5e put +3 as the effective cap on magic items, because +4 or better is a divine level of quality not generally available to mortals, even heroes. The Fantasy Companion seemed to aim for that same narrative space.

    • Oneiros
      Oneiros commented
      Editing a comment
      ValhallaGH I think D&D 5e put the cap at +3 because math. Considering a fighter maxes out at +6 on their attack rolls from base proficiency, compared to +20 from 3e. The "divine level" stuff is just fluff. SW's math also needs similar limits on permanent bonuses on items. I don't think it's driven by narrative in either case.

    • JackMann
      JackMann commented
      Editing a comment
      I would even say +3 is probably too big for Savage Worlds. If you get too big into static modifiers on rolls, you start to hit a situation where you're just chasing bonuses.

      +1 or +2 are already pretty strong bonuses, especially when stacked on top of the sort of bonuses you can get from Edges. I'd rather stop there and just start working into other cool abilities.

  • #3
    My list, in order from most needing of an update:
    1. Fantasy
    2. Scifi
    2. Supers
    4. Horror

    I got into Savage Worlds just as Deluxe edition dropped, and I never picked up the FC. Mostly because a) I was burned out on fantasy at the time, and b) I own about a dozen 3.5 books that are relatively easy to convert material from. But from what I understand, the FC uses the pre-Deluxe ruleset, so it could desperately do with a facelift. However, the only thing I've heard people going back to it for were it's magic item creation rules, and since those are now in Swade, it might focus on more thematic elements (i.e., specialized Arcane Backgrounds, siege weapons, other planes of existance, etc.).

    I put the SFC second because it contains a large amount of "build your own" rules for things that simply do not line up with the vehicle stats in Swade. I really want to see build rules that allow you to construct vehicles, walkers, and power armor that won't get torn apart by single shell from a WWII-era Sherman. That, and many of the weapons could do with an upgrade as well.

    Third comes the Super Powers Companion. Not much to change here. Just swap out some of the language for the newer vernacular and update a few Powers. Content-wise, this is the smallest Companion, with the Rogue's Gallery (an extensive list of pregens) taking up about two-fifths of the book.

    And last is the Horror Companion. This book is practically perfect, I suspect even by Swade standards. A couple Edges/Hindrances have been made irrelevant when the 2016 Shaken rules came out, but other than that, this book still holds up. A good deal of it is guidelines for setting tone for different styles of horror, including a nice selection of Setting Rules that would need minor adjustments (if any), so there's not a lot of crunch to update. I could think of a few new things to add, but not too much needs to change here.


    • DoctorBoson
      DoctorBoson commented
      Editing a comment
      Definitely agree on the Fantasy Companion; the other thing it was phenomenal for was its enormous bestiary of various standard fantasy monsters. Seeing those updated to SWADE, along with siege weapons, specialized arcane rules (hopefully with high-powered magic a la Mega Powers in Rifts, and expanded rules for "locked-in" Trappings as an optional Setting Rule), and magic item rules for more D&D-style loot rather than the simple "imbue this sword with the power of smite for a minute or two" would work wonders.

      For the SFC, the modern arms/armor have gotten a huge Armor/AP downgrade (rightfully so), so that works fairly well together now. The values are still a bit high but it's not anything really game-breaking anymore. And I disagree with SFC weapons needing upgrades because dear lord they're already terrifying.

      Tbh It think the cost adjustments to the SPC2 (and possibly retooling the book's sub-par Rogue's Gallery) would need bigger tweaks. Given the reach of modern Toughness/Armor, I'd love to see it possible to build supers with higher Armor/Toughness as well (maybe going to 15 levels each instead of just 10).

    • Deskepticon
      Deskepticon commented
      Editing a comment
      DoctorBoson Fair points. I read in the changelog that vehicle Armor/Toughness got an adjustment, but wasn't sure by how much. Still think the SFC vehicles/ships can do with a bit more Toughness tough.

      As for the weapons, I didn't mean they needed to be more powerful... just that they felt like they were missing something. Maybe phasic rounds that rip through shields, or some simple rules to modify them (i.e., increase AP in exchange for lower ammo capacity, etc).

  • #4
    I think Fantasy Companion absolutely needs redone. I did not care for this book, so start over from the ground up, maybe look at Savage Mojo for their awesome books like Suzerain or Shaintar.
    I think Horror Companion is totally awesome, but could definitely need to be cleaned and updated. (Especially the edges, which are so awesome.)
    Super Powers Companion I would only add more modifiers for examples such as Usable by Others and of course Dropping Super Strength to 1/point per level.
    Science Fiction Companion seems fine and can be updated at leisure


    • Jounichi
      Jounichi commented
      Editing a comment
      Decreasing the cost of Super Attribute to 1/level would be overpowered.

    • Ixat
      Ixat commented
      Editing a comment
      I wouldn't be adverse to granting the leverage that come with TK, Matter, or Force Control to Super Attribute (first 2 points nets D10 in attribute) but I agree that 1/level would be overpowered.

      Potential balance to that would be the reduction of starting die steps by 1 for each attribute that is taken via Super Attribute. Thus if you take Super Attribute for all five, they all start at D10, but you do not get any customization dice.
      Last edited by Ixat; 01-21-2019, 01:55 PM.

  • #5
    Both Fantasy & Horror do need a rework. Last I knew a 2.0 of these should be coming eventually. The covers were pictured in convention materials last year (or the year before; or its possible I hallucinated them). I'm hoping some balance is brought to Horror similar to the Power Level tiers in Supers so that you could sortof run campaigns with a diverse group of monsters like Accursed & WoD .

    I'd like something to ensure Supers is in line. Revision to the Edges, Hindrances, & Powers in relation to SWADE. Science Fiction would be last in line.


    • #6
      Entirely on the basis of which I use most
      1. Supers
      2 I'd quite like a full Savage Rifts companion to SWADE-ify everything
      3. Sci-Fi


      • #7
        The order is pretty definitively Fantasy, (big gap), Horror, (small gap), Supers, Sci-Fi.

        Fantasy does pretty much need a full re-write because of how old it is and how much of it made it into SWD already even before SWADE came out. A book with new Arcane Backgrounds, expanded ritual magic rules, rules for high/expanded magic in SW, expanding the Mass Battle system to include monstrous creatures, fantasy warfare, and an expanded fantasy bestiary would be great to see.

        Horror is pretty good; you'd want to update the Sanity system, clean up the Edges, adjust the new Powers with modifiers, and clean up the bestiary. If possible, use the same ritual magic system as from the updated Fantasy Companion, but include horror trappings and maybe make it more dangerous to use, or include dials in the system for how dangerous/difficult it is. The Horror bestiary is one of my favorite for SW, so I'd love to see as much of that kept or expanded as possible.

        Supers mostly just needs to be updated with new Power costs and written to include the new condition mechanics and Tests/Support. There are a few minor concepts that could maybe use expansion, but SPC2 covers 95% of what you'd want from a supers book. The biggest issue I've had with it is balancing combat and non-combat powers; some advice to manage expectations of PCs and NPCs would be great, along with a rewrite and expansion of the sample NPCs and bestiary.

        The Sci-Fi Companion probably needs the fewest changes, since it's one of the newest and already uses most of the design principles we see in SWADE. Some gear cleanup, update the race creation tables a bit and expand on them for sci-fi concepts, and update the various ship/walker/etc creation rules for the new Armor/Toughness/Size assumptions from SWADE and you should be good to go.