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Setting rule im thinking of

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  • Setting rule im thinking of

    Hi all,
    A long time GM and player of SW, never really re-registered after the reset of this forum. But lurked around daily though.

    Im thinking of a setting rule in my games and I wanted to hear if you think its fair and if there are some things I might have missed considering.

    A Cruel World
    Once per session the GM may activate one of your Hindrances, often at an unconveniant place or situation.
    This can only happen once and the player will be rewarded with 2 Bennies.

    Of course there would be some more fluff-text, but I didn´t want to confuse with that but to be more precise to the point of this Setting rule.

    Best regards.

  • #2
    It's my impression that most GM's reward their players for playing up their Hindrances on their own, and usually reward them with a Benny. Are your players never doing this, which is why you want this rule? If so, I'd just reward them with 1 Benny, not 2.
    Savage Summaries-RAW, with added info from Clint:Combat Actions,Cover,Healing,Using Powers,Grappling,Chases
    Also:Persuasion,Better Bosses,Better Combat Rating
    And:historical tech levels,generic SW sci-fi tech levels

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    • #3
      I've always felt the GM can use your hindrances whenever he wants. But the book also encourages when the GM uses a hindrance that he gives the players a Benny

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      • #4
        ZenFox42 well they tend to act out on them when it matters the least. So this way they get use of them in more inreresting ways. At leat it is so in my head.

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        • #5
          Hm... do you have any example uses of this Setting Rule? If you're talking about invoking something like Wanted, Enemy, Phobias or Vows, it's the GM's responsibility to be invoking those things anyways, setting the stage to implement those weaknesses in accordance with a good story—no Setting Rule necessary. If a character has a Phobia of fire then you should be having games where there are huge flame pits and fire hazards all over at least a few times per game—this introduces the complication of the character both avoiding larger sources of flame and doing his damnedest to make sure that those fires don't catch and get bigger, and probably earns a Benny for having to deal with that.

          If you're talking more personality-based things, like Arrogant or Overconfident, such a setting rule takes away player freedom by forcing a trait to come into play. At best this can be solved, again without a Setting Rule, by encouraging RP or bribing characters with a benny (I've heard the idea of offering one of the GM's bennies specifically, which means the player gets one benny and the GM loses a benny for the universe) to do something stupid and detrimental in accordance with a Hindrance for the sake of fun and adventure.

          One thing worth noting is that Bennies generally shouldn't be given out for Hindrance lip service. The point of giving out bennies, with regards to Hindrances, is to encourage players actually being hindered and playing into those detriments. If someone is "being greedy" during downtime and nicking one or two things from random street vendors, it's not really worth a benny. But if, during the final boss encounter, they stop fighting for the briefest of moments to grab some invaluable treasure before it goes over the edge of a cliff, giving the Big Bad the opportunity to gain the upper hand or escape, that is Benny worthy.
          My thoughts, musings, and general character adaptations on Savage Everything. Now featuring Suppressive Fire that actually works!

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          • #6
            You could reverse it and do this: Cruel World: Everyone starts with 1 fewer Bennies than usual. This would encourage the players to really roleplay their characters, hindrances and all, to be awarded those precious Bennies. That said, the new SWADE rules already make the world more cruel: No spending Bennies to reroll crit fails and you CAN spend Bennies to reroll damage. Can't wait to hurt my players :-)

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            • #7
              DoctorBoson I was thinking about like Big mouth. But perhaps im better off talking with my players about acting out their hindrances more.
              BrianGM Yeah with the new edition there are more stuff they would want to do with bennies.
              Perhaps I have been overthinking this, but I really want them to be ready to act out on the hindrances in situations that matters more.

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              • #8
                The FATE game systems allow the GM to do what's called a Compel, where you offer the player a Fate chip to act out one of their traits (when it might put them in a lurch). The player can refuse, however. This doesn't get you all the way to "forcing" them to do it, but is a middle ground where you offer a reward for playing up their Hindrances in places where it would hurt them. Good roleplayers should be playing up their Hindrances and getting Bennies anyway, but Compelling might be a way to "remind" them they have an applicable Hindrance in a particular situation.

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                • #9
                  Welcome to the forum! (Belated but genuine.)

                  Originally posted by Mogge View Post
                  ... I really want them to be ready to act out on the hindrances in situations that matters more.
                  I've found that reminding players of their hindrances, while holding up a benny, has this effect. Players generally get bored with characters that are too much like themselves - being reminded of who the character is and what the character is about is often enough to get them to do something more interesting and in keeping with hindrances.

                  Your proposed setting rule will probably have an overall negative result. Instead of Hindrances being a player choice, with interesting narrative effects, this rule turns them into a "Gotcha!" that the GM can throw into any scene to screw with the players and stymie their efforts.
                  I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

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                  • #10
                    I will use the reminding with them insteadt. Thanks all for helping me here. Really appretiate it!

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mogge View Post
                      ZenFox42 well they tend to act out on them when it matters the least. So this way they get use of them in more inreresting ways. At leat it is so in my head.
                      If the hindrances doesn't cause the character problems, then it's not acting as a hindrance and does not gain a benny reward. The reward is specifically for players that opt in to making life difficult. GMs can choose to compel the character's hindrances, and should, during a game.

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                      • ValhallaGH
                        ValhallaGH commented
                        Editing a comment
                        By the rules, the only hindrances a GM can "compel" into the session are those with an external element. Phobias, enemies, etc.
                        Stuff like Heroic, Overconfident, and even Arrogant or Bloodthirsty, are choices players make about how the character acts and reacts to a specific scenario.

                    • #12
                      This is why I have a love/hate relationship with Hindrances.

                      The thing is, Hindrances are not exactly drawbacks, mechanically speaking; they are actually net benefits. A character takes a Hindrance and immediately gets a bonus point or two to offset it. If the player never evokes their Hindrance, they still have whatever benefit they gained from that bonus point. If they do evoke their Hindrance, they stand a good chance of earning a Benny.

                      The game is designed assuming the players' Hindrances will come up as often as their Edges or skills. When they don't, it's almost like giving the players a free advance or two.

                      Some solutions I've seen ranged from bribing the player to offering to give-up a GM Benny... or use a Fates-style Compel rule.

                      I've personal had players that simply refused to evoke Hindrances. Makes me wish the rule was changed so that Hindrances didn't provide bonus points up-front, but instead offered a temporary in-game benefit only once the Hindrance is invoked.

                      Comment


                      • paladin2019
                        paladin2019 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        I argue, rather, that the game is designed with the expectation that players will load up on the full 1 major and 2 minor hindrances and the attendant build points and that the "hindrance" is in not invoking it and gaining the benny.

                    • #13
                      Originally posted by Deskepticon View Post
                      I've personal had players that simply refused to evoke Hindrances.
                      Every player I've had do this has watched their character die because they lacked Bennies to salvage those key moments when the dice were against them.
                      I've discovered it to be a self correcting problem. But I realize my experiences are not universal.
                      I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

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                      • #14
                        Originally posted by Mogge View Post
                        Hi all,
                        Once per session the GM may activate one of your Hindrances, often at an unconveniant place or situation.
                        This can only happen once and the player will be rewarded with 2 Bennies.
                        I would just take a page from 7th Sea or Witch Hunter. I wouldn't limit it to a single time (maybe once per scene if I want to tie my hands). Then I'd play it one of two ways:

                        Adversarial GMing: I activate your Hindrance and give you a benny for your trouble.
                        Cooperative GMing: I offer you a benny to suffer the effects of your Hindrance. If you don't accept it, *I* (the GM) get to keep the benny.

                        Either way makes for some fun play.

                        Tom

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                        • #15
                          paladin2019 Think I agree with you that the game is built with the expectation that players take those hindrances for the bump up front, not that hindrances themselves will always come into effect. Also, players not invoking their drawbacks are losing out on bennies, so that’s a balancing factor right there.

                          My problem is players invoking hindrances at times it won’t really be an inconvenience to them, trying to get a Bennie with no risk.

                          Next game I run, I’m going to hand out hindrance cards to players. Purpose is twofold: one, as a physical reminder of hindrances, and two, it’s traded in for a Bennie so they can only invoke a given hindrance once per session. I’m still going to reserve the right to refuse the card and not hand out a Bennie if the hindrance doesn’t create any real problem for the character at that moment

                          Comment


                          • ValhallaGH
                            ValhallaGH commented
                            Editing a comment
                            If the hindrance isn't hindering then it doesn't rate a benny. That's long established.
                            Really.
                            No, really.

                          • Deskepticon
                            Deskepticon commented
                            Editing a comment
                            Also, players not invoking their drawbacks are losing out on bennies, so that’s a balancing factor right there.
                            It doesn't follow as a "balancing" factor since the character has already received bonus points. If they used the points to bump Vigor or Fighting, they are receiving a benefit everytime they go into combat. If they never suffer any drawback from their Hindrances, there is a measurable imbalance before any consideration of a Benny is brought up.

                            I understand this is a circumstantial case, but its one I have personally experienced.
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