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Sleepy Hollow v3 chase rules feedback

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  • Sleepy Hollow v3 chase rules feedback

    I found some serious problems with the new Chase rules.

    1) There is a good probability that the first two legs of the chase will never end.
    If a character gets a club on their action card and is sitting on a club Chase card, they are at a -4 to their maneuver roll. That’s a hard roll, and if they fail they take a point of fatigue, adding another -1 penalty to all rolls. And heaven forbid they get wounded and suffer another penalty. Then what happens when their next action card is another club? Pretty sure they are going to fail at that point with a -5 to -6, and then they will suffer another point of fatigue. And with heroes never die in play... they can get stuck on that clib card perpetually. Also the chase won’t end unless all the heroes reach the ninth card.

    I actual prefer version 2s rules. The only chang I felt was necessary was to lose the tokens in favor of a segmented chart. The added complications seem to unnecessarily slow the chase down and also result in a fail spiral.

    more to come later.

  • #2
    2) The “heroes never die” rule became obvious when the Horseman struck Franklin with several die explosions. Knowing they couldn’t die, but would suffer massive penalties killed my player’s enthusiasm.

    3) Also unclear was whether or not a character could attack in the middle of a move or before a move.

    4) once one of my players taunted the horseman and discovered he was “weak-willed” (-4), most players stuck with that attack to disorient him as it had the best chance of success.

    There are a lot of good fixes in the setup with this version. Giving everyone a weapon option was good. My players did use taunt, intimidate, and the force maneuver more.
    Last edited by Vinzent; 11-05-2018, 03:02 AM.

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    • #3
      Finally, can the Horseman become Fatigued in the first two chase legs?
      Last edited by Vinzent; 11-05-2018, 03:01 AM.

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      • #4

        ​One important thing to note is that Change Position is now a free action, and using it as an Action gives you a +2 bonus. This helps mitigate any penalties when you want to move off a bad card.

        ​​​​​​I also offered some optional rules in another thread, but I'll repeat the relevant part here:

        • At the beginning of each round, move all participants (individuals, groups, etc) one Chase card forward.

        This both simulates the feeling of the chase progressing and it moves characters off of any potential "pitfalls," like the perpetual double-Clubs scenario you presented.

        I also think the the rules leave plenty of room for expansion. For example, double-Hearts (Hearts on the Action Card while the character is sitting on a Hearts Chase Card) could present a boon of some type, earning the character a +2 to whatever action they are going to perform.
        ...double-Diamonds could impose a penalty on any attacks made against you that round (i.e., free cover). Such circumstancial benefits would balance-back the direness that the Complications table provides.
        _________

        All-in-all, I like both versions for various reasons. I think they both could find a home at my table.

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        • Vinzent
          Vinzent commented
          Editing a comment
          My player was using the action for a +2, but kept failing. She even spent all of her bennies on it. Once they were gone, she was truly stuck.

        • Deskepticon
          Deskepticon commented
          Editing a comment
          Vinzent Youch! That's rough... she kept drawing Clubs, or was she just severely wounded/winded?

        • Vinzent
          Vinzent commented
          Editing a comment
          She drew clubs twice in a row and wound up with -2 Fatigue. Even using her action to go forward, she was stuck with a -4 penalty and couldn't roll an ace for 6 turns. After a while we just narrated that she disappeared into the mists and was never heard from again.

      • #5
        Originally posted by Vinzent View Post
        1) There is a good probability that the first two legs of the chase will never end.
        If a character gets a club on their action card and is sitting on a club Chase card, they are at a -4 to their maneuver roll. That’s a hard roll, and if they fail they take a point of fatigue, adding another -1 penalty to all rolls. And heaven forbid they get wounded and suffer another penalty. Then what happens when their next action card is another club? Pretty sure they are going to fail at that point with a -5 to -6, and then they will suffer another point of fatigue. And with heroes never die in play... they can get stuck on that clib card perpetually. Also the chase won’t end unless all the heroes reach the ninth card.
        I don't see this as a problem with the rules. Everyone knows that club Chase cards are bad. The solution is to try and avoid them. When faced with a club Chase card, the rider can chose "Change Position" as their action (to get the +2) and try to get a raise. This will allow them to skip over the club Chase card. (Yes, there could be two club cards in a row)

        If someone is on a club Chase card and draws a club Action card, the other heroes should start doing Support actions. The player on the club card can hold their action until everyone else has had a chance to Support. Good skills for Support would be Notice ("hey the path is clear to your left") , Riding, and Persuasion ("You can do it!)

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        • Deskepticon
          Deskepticon commented
          Editing a comment
          ^ this!

          Whenever I ran Chases, the rounds were rarely ever 6-second intervals like they are in combat; they were "scenes", typically lasting between 30 seconds to a couple minutes each.

          "Support" in some cases could be as campy as an ally in the lead hitting the crosswalk button to clear the intersection for the guy behind him.

      • #6
        Originally posted by Vinzent View Post
        ... And with heroes never die in play... they can get stuck on that [club] card perpetually. Also the chase won’t end unless all the heroes reach the ninth card.
        I think the solution to this is right there, under Heroes Never Die. If a character finds themself stuck, they can simply drop out of the chase. They stumble back at the beginning of Scene Two.

        What such "failure" means for them is up to the GM. Perhaps they need to start the next scene a card behind the rest of the players... having had to find and re-mount their horse.

        Also, as the GM, you need to decide if you'll let one player hold up the entire scene because the description of the scene demands it. If someone continuously fails---and as a result of that failure, just makes the penalties worse---then perhaps the best thing to do is to rule that they simply drop out.

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        • #7
          Originally posted by Vinzent View Post
          I actual prefer version 2s rules. The only chang I felt was necessary was to lose the tokens in favor of a segmented chart. The added complications seem to unnecessarily slow the chase down and also result in a fail spiral.
          Are these v2 rules still available for perusal anywhere?

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        • #8
          I really like these version 3 rules. There is no covering up rollig badly with rules. If you choose to use an action to move ahead you will have +2 that at least negates half of the negative penalties from having a club as an actioncard as well as standing on a clubcard.
          I dont know if it would be better to spend a bennie to draw a new card than doing anyting else in that situation.
          However I feel these rules fits very well and me and my group did think it was great action and the Chasecards really helped with guidelines to what happened.
          Of couirse it took a little longer than usual chases since we where all new to these rules, but I think once we know them by hand it will go as quickly as before.

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          • #9
            Remember that you can also always voluntarily drop back one or two cards. If you are stuck on a Club card (maybe a river you can't cross), just drop back one card (no roll required) and try again next round. Maybe you can jump over the river with a little luck and momentum.

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            • #10
              Originally posted by Tumola View Post
              Remember that you can also always voluntarily drop back one or two cards. If you are stuck on a Club card (maybe a river you can't cross), just drop back one card (no roll required) and try again next round. Maybe you can jump over the river with a little luck and momentum.
              This had not occurred to me or any of my players. However, it is unclear if you can do that. If you start your turn on a club card and get a complication, it’s my understanding you have to roll and suffer the consequences of that location. If you fail, do you still have the option to move?
              Last edited by Vinzent; 11-05-2018, 06:33 PM.

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              • #11
                However, it is unclear if you can do that. If you start your turn on a club card and get a complication, it’s my understanding you have to roll and suffer the consequences of that location. If you fail, do you still have the option to move?
                It is unclear, true. However, there is nothing in the description that says that your turn is over after resolving the complication. Sure, you can suffer Wounds, Fatigue and a bunch of penalties. I think in the old versions of the chase rules it said that it costs you your action to handle the complication. But even then you could theoretically still Drop Back as a free action.

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