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Adamant: Mars

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  • Adamant: Mars

    Hello All,

    I’ve always loved ERB Men of Mars series. So I picked up the book Mars. I do like the book and rather glad that it isn’t an exact copy of Barsoom. There’s enough to give it the flavor I want but I’m encouraged to make it my own. However the question is has anyone played from the book? Anything I should look out for? Especially that I’m still really new to the system. (I will say things are making more sense to me with this genre than with Supers by far.)

    As always, thanks in advance.

  • #2
    I will not answer your question, but I will tell you that I also bought the book and I like it very much!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Ninja-Bear View Post
      However the question is has anyone played from the book?
      Not for some time. The Savage version is from 2009, converted from other works, and it really shows in the rules.
      Anything I should look out for? Especially that I’m still really new to the system.
      As you have begun to notice (in the other thread), the rules are ... mechanically suspect. They were written with the old Toolkit rules (circa 2006), which are fine for the design ideas of the time but have not aged well.
      Also, the conversion is pretty bad. The NPCs do not follow their species rules, for example.

      Unfortunately the main benefit of the book, especially for a Burroughs fan, is the game mechanics. The fact that they are suspect keeps me from recommending it.
      I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

      Comment


      • #4
        Older rule sets don’t bother me per se. I have learned that there is are some differences between SW Deluxe and SW deluxe Explorer’s edition.

        Comment


        • #5
          One thing for sure, the NPC Green Martians are a bit too strong as listed. Well for standard cannon fodder anyways.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ninja-Bear View Post
            One thing for sure, the NPC Green Martians are a bit too strong as listed. Well for standard cannon fodder anyways.
            That is not sure.
            First, because they are too weak - they are missing most of their race features. All they get is +2 Toughness, which is not the Size +3 or the Armor +2.
            Second, because green martians are supposed to be massive, powerful, and deadly warriors; able to overcome the cultural and technological advantages of the civilized red martians with raw ability and a (logistically implausible) numerical advantage.
            I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

            Comment


            • #7
              Green Martians too weak? The NPC lists them at d12 STR and gives them Great Sword at STR + d10 and they have Toughness of 9. Nope they’re Ogres.

              Comment


              • Deskepticon
                Deskepticon commented
                Editing a comment
                Ogres (in Deluxe) have Str d12+3, Toughness 12(1), carry massive clubs (d8 damage), and can Sweep. NPC Green Men are significantly weaker than ogres, dealing on average about 3 points less damage and requiring 3 less damage to become Shaken.

              • Deskepticon
                Deskepticon commented
                Editing a comment
                Also, I think Val meant "too weak" when compared to the playable version, as evidenced by the fact their Toughness is 3(2) points too low. Easy fix... just make their Toughness 12(2).

                But you seem to think they are too strong already, which I find trouble understanding. Their listed Strength is d12, but with a natural cap of d12+3, that's average for the race. Additionally, they are supposed to be threatening foes, players need to utilize clever tactics to overcome them (Gang Up, Wild Attacks, Smarts tricks, Test of Wills). Shaken them with a non-damaging attack as a setup for the party's heavy-hitter to take them down.

            • #8
              Threatening foes yes. But this is also Sword and Planet therefore Cinematic. Gang up bonus? What self respecting swordsman is going to resort to such a trick?

              Comment


              • Deskepticon
                Deskepticon commented
                Editing a comment
                Well, that's a question for individual character concepts to answer. Anyone who refuses help fighting a towering brute probably has Arrogant or Overconfident as a Hindrance. Sometimes, even the most self-respecting swordsman needs to swallow his pride when facing certain death.

                Besides, the "cinematic" aspect is already handled through Setting Rules, like Heroic Survival.
                Last edited by Deskepticon; 09-24-2021, 07:06 PM.

            • #9
              Originally posted by Ninja-Bear View Post
              Green Martians too weak? The NPC lists them at d12 STR and gives them Great Sword at STR + d10 and they have Toughness of 9. Nope they’re Ogres.
              Yes, too weak.
              Strength d12 is pretty average for a 9' tall, heavily muscled warrior from a race that has both starting d6 and maximum d12+3.
              Toughness 9? I can make a Novice Human with Toughness 9. (Or Toughness 10 in Adventure Edition.) And yes, that is bare naked.

              Ogres have Strength d12+3, Toughness 12 (1), and a massive club that deals Str+d8 damage. They are significantly more dangerous than the green martian npcs; which is nonsense since the listed racial abilities should be creating ogre-like npcs.

              The Tribal Warrior is basically an experienced soldier with a "green martian" template slapped on. I think Experienced Soldier is too good a base for "generic disposable warrior", so I will be changing that base to Soldier for this example. Soldier has Strength and Vigor d6. Slap the 'green martian' racial package on there and you get Strength and Vigor d8, Size +3, Armor 2, Large, and Bloodthirsty. This makes individual warriors strong enough to match experienced veterans of the red martians, tougher than red martian elites, and still basically trained. The results would be:
              Originally posted by Green Martian Tribal Warrior
              Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d4, Spirit d6, Strength d8, Vigor d8
              Skills: Fighting d6, Notice d6, Shooting d6, Stealth d4
              Charisma: -4; Pace: 6; Parry: 5; Toughness: 11 (2)
              Hindrances: Bloodthirsty
              Edges:
              Gear: Axe (Str+d8)
              Special Abilities:
              • Armor +2: Hard skin.
              • Large
              • Size +3
              Then use the Experienced Soldier for the Brute Warriors. The two or four bonus damage compensates for the relatively poor Strength, and everything else makes them a terror for others to face in close combat.
              Originally posted by Green Martian Brute Warrior
              Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d4, Spirit d6, Strength d10, Vigor d10
              Skills: Fighting d8, Notice d8, Shooting d8, Stealth d6
              Charisma: -4; Pace: 6; Parry: 5; Toughness: 14 (2)
              Hindrances: Bloodthirsty
              Edges: Berserk, Brute Warrior (-1 Parry, +2 Damage, +2 Toughness)
              Gear: War Sword (Str+d10+2)
              Special Abilities:
              • Armor +2: Hard skin.
              • Large
              • Size +3
              Then use a customized Wild Card for the Tribal Chieftain, based on the Orc Chieftain. Despite the massive Strength, the chieftain has untapped potential, leaving room for a player character to outshine and even replace the chieftain.
              Originally posted by Green Martian Tribal Chieftain
              Attributes: Agility d8, Smarts d6, Spirit d6, Strength d12+2, Vigor d12
              Skills: Fighting d12, Intimidation d10, Notice d6, Shooting d8, Stealth d6, Throwing d8
              Charisma: -4; Pace: 6; Parry: 8; Toughness: 13 (2)
              Hindrances: Bloodthirsty
              Edges: No Mercy, Sweep
              Gear: War Sword (Str+d10)
              Special Abilities:
              • Armor +2: Hard skin.
              • Large
              • Size +3
              I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

              Comment


              • #10
                ValhallahGH said : I can make a Novice Human with Toughness 9. (Or Toughness 10 in Adventure Edition.) And yes, that is bare naked.

                Details, please! In SWADE.
                Savage Summaries-RAW, with added info from Clint:Combat Actions,Cover,Healing,Using Powers,Grappling,Chases (all SWD)
                Also:Persuasion (SWADE),Better Bosses (SWADE),Handling Illusions (SWADE), Better Combat Rating (system independent)
                And:historical tech levels,generic SW sci-fi tech levels (both system indepdent)

                Comment


                • #11
                  Originally posted by ZenFox42 View Post
                  ValhallahGH said : I can make a Novice Human with Toughness 9. (Or Toughness 10 in Adventure Edition.) And yes, that is bare naked.

                  Details, please! In SWADE.
                  Sure.

                  Put 4 Attribute points into Vigor (Vigor d12) and 1 into Strength (Strength d6).
                  Get full Hindrances.
                  Use 2 Hindrance points to increase Strength to d8.
                  Use free Human Edge to take Brawny (+1 Size, Strength for Encumbrance and Min Str requirements; requires Strength and Vigor d6+).
                  Use 2 Hindrance points to take Brawler (+1 Toughness, unarmed improves to Str+d4; requires Strength and Vigor d8+). [This is the part you can't do in Deluxe, which is why a Deluxe human Novice is limited to Toughness 9.]

                  Toughness is two plus half Vigor plus Size plus other bonuses. That's 2 + 6 + 1 + 1, or Toughness 10. While naked as a zero Advance Novice.

                  Attributes: Agility d4, Smarts d4, Spirit d4, Strength d8, Vigor d12
                  Skills: core skills plus 12 points.
                  Pace: 6; Parry: varies; Toughness: 10
                  Hindrances: four points
                  Edges: Brawler, Brawny
                  Gear: $500 worth.
                  I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

                  Comment


                  • #12
                    Originally posted by ValhallaGH View Post
                    Attributes: Agility d4, Smarts d4, Spirit d4, Strength d8, Vigor d12
                    Skills: core skills plus 12 points.
                    Pace: 6; Parry: varies; Toughness: 10
                    Hindrances: four points
                    Edges: Brawler, Brawny
                    Gear: $500 worth.
                    I have seen pretty much this same character build but with d10 Str and d10 vigor submitted and his only skills where Athletics and Fighting. Obviously the character was effective in combat and close to useless only out of combat.

                    Comment


                    • ValhallaGH
                      ValhallaGH commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yeah, specialist characters suck outside of their specialty. But inside their specialty they are amazing.
                      And sometimes a specialist is exactly what you want to play.

                    • Ndreare
                      Ndreare commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yep, I generally prefer playing specialist myself. It is a team game so I don't mind having weakspots others can cover.

                    • Deskepticon
                      Deskepticon commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Ndreare Exactly!
                      Too often I've seen players create characters that are adequate at everything, but "good" at nothing.

                  • #13
                    Good points. One thing I was going to do anyways before I even posted on this forum was going to reduce the size of the Green Martians. I can’t visualize them at 15’ and since these aren’t supposed to be exactly like ERB’s well I’ll shrink them. I’m still going to keep them bigger than Red Martians. Basically they’ll be Size +2. I also messed around with the base Green Martian and I’ll do some more play test but I feel comfortable at putting them at Toughness 7 (still keeping the Hard Skin-I like that idea!) and the still have a Parry 6. I dropped their Strength down to d10 which is still stronger than standard White Ape. Also most of them should have Broadswords. The reasoning there is that in the fluff, the Broadsword is the most common sword used by all the militaries. And Green Martians aren’t know for creating to much “new” stuff. I feel as of now the Elites are fine as written Abilities wise. The Leader? Well I could see him as STR d12+3.

                    Comment


                    • #14
                      I gotta ask, ValhallaGH and Deskeption both have said that d12 should be the “average” strength. How did you guys come up with that? I could be very wrong but if a human is max d12 and starts at d4 and is listed as average being d6 then a Green Martian which starts out as a d6 should be average d8.

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                      • #15
                        (Well I can’t figure out to copy a post) Deskeption, Savage Worlds, particularly in the Mars book, does address some of the Cinematic play-but not all.

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