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Dragon Hatchlings & the Swat Monstrous Ability.

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  • Dragon Hatchlings & the Swat Monstrous Ability.

    Hi Sean,

    I know in a previous response to this subject you said you didn't like the idea of giving swat to dragon hatchlings because it allowed them to eliminate one of the main disadvantages of the framework.
    https://www.pegforum.com/forum/savag...0099#post20099

    What about making it only available at Heroic or Legendary Rank and prohibiting it from Born a Hero which Dragons don't get anyway?

  • #2
    And/or require one of the increased size edges too

    Comment


    • #3
      Isn't this exactly why they have a tail attack?

      I mean you could build a Vibro Vambrace to go on their tale 40K style, or have them learn martial arts or Smite and bump that tail damage up a bit. But I think the tail is the SWAT feature in effect.

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      • #4
        Interesting... Dawn of Daikaiju has SWAT as a Combat Edge with Seasoned and Daikaiju as requirements.....

        Comment


        • Ndreare
          Ndreare commented
          Editing a comment
          That book is so awesome I plan to use it in my Rifts game without even needing to do conversions.

        • Sean Tait Bircher
          Sean Tait Bircher commented
          Editing a comment
          To be fair, “Dawn of the Daikaiju” isn’t meant to balance with other settings (even though it is compatible with them). Swat as a Seasoned Edge for daikaiju makes sense in that setting, but I’d probably increase the Rank requirement in Rifts. Functionally, they’re practically equivalent to Heroic or Legendary Rifts characters anyway.

        • Ndreare
          Ndreare commented
          Editing a comment
          Sean Tait Bircher oh, i plan to use it against the players, not to let them play giant monsters. And when I make NPCs I ignore character creation rules, just pulling from the book what is needed.

      • #5
        Sean Tait Bircher yall did an awesome job on Dawn of the Daikaiju! I like your suggestion, it could be a possible Heroic or Legendary Edge option for Savage Rifts®. Not sure if I would make it a Combat Edge—allowing Robot Vehicle Aces or other large combatants to use it—or an Iconic Edge.

        BrotherGrrrimm thanks for bringing this subject back up. I'm still a bit nervous about allowing them to negate 4 points of Size penalties, but maybe two. I've made a note to consider it the next time I have a good excuse to add Dragon Hatchling related Edges to a book
        Sean Owen Roberson
        Line Manager, Rifts for Savage Worlds

        Comment


        • BrotherGrrrimm
          BrotherGrrrimm commented
          Editing a comment
          The GM in our Rifts game allowed me to take a lesser version of Swat in our game. My Great Horned Dragon Hatchling is Heroic Rank, and we set the ability as negating 2 points of Scale penalties. We have plans for an Improved Version, which negates an additional 2 points, but isn't available until Legendary Rank. I'll let you know it works out.

        • Ndreare
          Ndreare commented
          Editing a comment
          BrotherGrrrimm this sounds like the standard Savage Worlds approach. An edge negating -2 in specific modifiers, and improved version negating more is pretty much set in stone with a dozen examples.

          I like what you have, did he write it up in full, or just eyeball it as a generic edge?

        • BrotherGrrrimm
          BrotherGrrrimm commented
          Editing a comment
          Ndreare we pretty much just eyeballed it as a generic edge. Good eye for catching what we did because we used those existing edges as a benchmark for what Swat should look like as an Edge.

          Dragon Swat
          Requirements: Heroic, Dragon Hatchling
          The dragon has learned to compensate for their large size when attacking with their claws. They now ignore up to 2 points of Scale penalties when attacking with their claws.

          Improved Dragon Swat
          Requirements: Legendary, Dragon Hatchling, Dragon Swat
          The dragon further improves its ability to strike smaller targets with their claws and now ignore up to 4 points of Scale penalties when attacking with their claws.

      • #6
        Allowing a Dragon to overcome size penalties is about the same as giving him +2/+4 to all attack rolls (they will fight the occasional Dragon and Vehicle, but I doubt that's going to be that often compared to normal sized foe) . This is huge. The closest equivalent is the Trademark weapon Edge, but that only gives +1 to hit, +1 parry. I think a Dragon's large size is part of its identity, and if the drawback is removed, why not remove other IF's drawbacks. Like an Edge that allows a Crazy to remove mental hindrances.

        I also think it is an important balancing factor that no single Edge should negate. A Dragon requires teammates to work efficiently, by giving him Gang-up bonuses or mkaing the target Vulnerable through Tests. A Dragon can already alleviate some of these problems already. Any AB with the Boost Trait and/or Warrior's Gift can increase his Fighting skill and grant him the Trademark Weapon Edge. This can be done by the Dragon or a friendly caster as well. An Edge completly negates the need for teamwork IMHO, and that's the beauty of the imbalance of the IF.

        Dragon Edges are still possible, but they should improve these tactics rather than making them obsolete.

        Comment


        • #7
          Here's what I would use:

          Swat
          Requirements:
          Novice, Dragon Hatchling, Size 8+
          The dragon may swat, stomp, or thump their opponent. With this Edge, the dragon ignores up 4 points of Scale penalties, but cannot add their Claw damage to the damage roll. Extra damage from the MartialArtist or Brawler Edges still applies.

          Comment


          • Ndreare
            Ndreare commented
            Editing a comment
            I would prefer Brother Grimms idea above. Where SWAT only ignores -2 in penalties or -4 with an improved ability. This seems more mechanically consistent with how edges normally work. But one edge negating -4 in penalties, is just too much in my not so humble opinion.

          • Deskepticon
            Deskepticon commented
            Editing a comment
            Ndreare That's why I included the part about Claw damage not applying. Also, Scale modifiers are already a relatively narrow market. The Edge is only going to be effective with Fighting rolls against targets smaller than the dragon.

            There are other abilities that offer similar reductions. Aim allows the negation of up to 4 points of Shooting penalties in exchange for using a full turn; Low Light Vision negates up to 4 points of Illumination penalties with any attack or vision-based roll (and it's valued at half of what an Edge is). Edges like Two-fisted and Two Gun Kid remove the MAP for two Actions; that's a total of 4 points of penalties provided each action is done by a separate hand. Hard to Kill ignores the -3 Wound penalty on Bleeding Out.

            I mean, I really don't see this supposed precedent that abilities and Edges universally only negate 2 points. Especially not when there's an inherent drawback involved.
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