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Missing from the Elemental Fusionist

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  • #16
    Thanks guys, this was an amazing, positive discussion. I really enjoyed researching and writing this Framework. I didnt think that a MARS could do it justice. Just so that everyone understands, due to licensing the very unique Palladium warlocks are totally off-limits in Savage Rifts ( we can only mimic generic fantasy stuff like elves and dwarves). This, combined with the fact that the PR EF didnt quite have the depth for an IF, led me to combine—yes, fusion ftw—the two concepts into one (hopefully) deeper whole. Im so glad to see everyone approaching the deficiencies of my original design with such a positive spirit, and with such logic and carefully plotted math! Yall have really helped me get the IF to where it needs to be. I would love to do a lot more with the fusion trappings, but I simply did not have the room. It was a challenge to create something like this after the book was already laid out, but I have shoehorned in all I can now, and maybe even Tribe will think the math is decent.

    Also, I was worried that the EF would be too powerful. When you see the Field Manual you will understand. EFs will be able to summon and even sidekick elementals, which are very powerful.
    Sean Owen Roberson
    Line Editor, Rifts for Savage Worlds

    Comment


    • #17
      Here, instant gratification. Pick it apart, gents.


      Arcane Background (Gifted): Begin with Survival d6, Focus d6, Arcane Background (Gifted), and 15 PP (not ISP/PPE). Choose an elemental life sign—air, earth, fire, or water—and gain detect arcana plus four powers from the associated list above. As Gifted, Fusionists have access to Mega Power Modifiers for all known powers, but can't use TW gear.
      Elemental Brotherhood: Fusionists can see and uncannily converse with all elemental entities, including spirits of light/dark, even if invisible. Such beings see them as brothers and will offer or request aid if needed, though they aren't suicidal.
      Primal Conduit: Fusionists gain the Charismatic and Woodsman Edges, and may Syphon Power Points from willing elemental beings or sources of their life sign (by Size) and gain similar benefits to ley line proximity from sites of primal energy, see Places of Power on page 34.
      Primordial Bond: While in nature, Fusionists have Danger Sense and may make a natural healing roll daily to recover Wounds, or Injuries once all Wounds are healed; near a life sign source this roll is hourly.
      All Thumbs: On a base level, Fusionists don't mix well with tech.
      Sean Owen Roberson
      Line Editor, Rifts for Savage Worlds

      Comment


      • magusrogue
        magusrogue commented
        Editing a comment
        I really still miss the increased attributes thing from the original EF. This helps alot, but I'd still like to also see +1 Strength and Vigor. It was a big thing in their write ups that they were simply stronger due to their elemental bonds. It would also set the IF apart from other casters. These guys like to go into melee as much as hurling lightning bolts.

      • Tribe of One
        Tribe of One commented
        Editing a comment
        I'd also like to see +1 Strength and Vigor, for flavor more than anything. With the improvements PEGRoberson posted, these guys sit just a couple of points behind the LLW/Mind Melter/Mystic. I think they're in the range where they're balanced if they don't get the Strength/Vigor boost and okay if they do.

      • magusrogue
        magusrogue commented
        Editing a comment
        Much agreed Tribe. Like I mentioned below, I'd like to also see some unease while in cities, and maybe a penalty to PP, but doesn't have to happen. But yes, the STR and VIG boosts really need to be there.

    • #18
      Just wondering, does PPE gained from Elementals have to be voluntary on the part of the elemental?

      Comment


      • Venatus Vinco
        Venatus Vinco commented
        Editing a comment
        The siphoning rules in TLPG do say it has to be a willing ally. I assume the same would apply here but the GM should be clear that willingness should not be assumed by the player. Perhaps even a Persuasion roll might be needed to convince the elemental to help his "little brother".

        VV

    • #19
      I think that the way to make the EF over-the-top awesome (without power-boosting) is to come up with a list of all six possible elemental fusion combos, with unique fusion synergies instead of the one generic one. I realize that's not how oRifts did it, and I'm not expecting to see it in this book, but IMO it would add a ton of flavor to the EF, so I'll probably work on this in Castle Refuge.

      Comment


      • Ndreare
        Ndreare commented
        Editing a comment
        Dang those are cool tbone
        Last edited by Ndreare; 09-19-2019, 05:19 PM.

      • Venatus Vinco
        Venatus Vinco commented
        Editing a comment
        And that, ladies and gentlemen, is why we love tbone9581 so much. Play in one of his games at savagerifts.com if at all possible.

        VV

      • magusrogue
        magusrogue commented
        Editing a comment
        Already playing a unique EF as we speak, pkitty. Uses Magma as her unique elemental fusion combo. Fire/Earth, uses the Fire/Air list for bonus powers. I LOVE it. Get to hurl balls of burning lava at people and throw walls of molten rock in people's ways, then run up and beat the holy heck out of them in melee with burning Smite hands combined with my Brawler Edge.

    • #20
      So I like the forward momentum of the revisions here, Mr Roberson. I REALLY do. However, there's just a couple things I'd feel is missing.

      Elemental Body: Like I mentions, EFs were as much physical fighters as they were casters. Heck, the PR book has one lifting a boulder to chunk at people. I'd still recommend +1 Str and +1 Vig. Not as powerful as a Crazy or Juicer, but still beefier than other caster IFs.

      City Issues: One of the huge things about EFs in PR is they did NOT like being in cities. It cut them off from their powers and made them feel real uneasy. Maybe give them penalties while in cities like Werecats get from B&B? Also maybe a slower recharge for PP while in a city? I like how you took the regen outside cities. Its a good step but there needs to be a heftier penalty for being in a city, IMHO

      Comment


      • #21
        Balance issue: Earth gets 5 unique powers (Beast Friend, Burrow, Entangle, Growth/Shrink, Wall Walker), Air gets 4 (Deflection, Farsight, Havoc, Sound/Silence) and Fire and Water each get 3 (Damage Field, Darksight, Light/Darkness) (Confusion, Intangibility, Warrior's Gift).

        Why does Earth get to be so much more badass? It's worse that Air/Earth are paired -- an Lightning Fusionist has a power list of the base abilities +13 powers while a Steam one has base abilities +11 powers.

        SUGGESTION: First, move Growth/Shrink to Water. It fits fluidity better anyway. Second, move Illusion out of the Steam list and into Fire directly. It's not like you're using water to make your illusions. That gives you even power lists, which I think is important if these are being presented as equally useful choices for the EF.

        Comment


        • Scottbert
          Scottbert commented
          Editing a comment
          Are all powers equal?

        • magusrogue
          magusrogue commented
          Editing a comment
          In another thread, Sean mentioned Growth/Shrinking was a typo. That's suppose to be only for Warlocks.

      • #22
        Strength and Vigor are in. Please move discussions of Fusion Trappings and abilities to the Castle Refuge forum. I will be shutting old posts down eventually, and want to keep this board focused on balancing stuff that is in the books. I cant expand or change layout basically at all at this point, just minor tweaks and adjustments. Thanks guys, I would like to do more with the Fusionists trappings etc in the future, so it would be great to see what yall come up with.
        Sean Owen Roberson
        Line Editor, Rifts for Savage Worlds

        Comment


        • pkitty
          pkitty commented
          Editing a comment
          Okay but just to be clear my reply #21 was an issue with the existing EF, not part of the "new trapping" tangent.

        • PEGRoberson
          PEGRoberson commented
          Editing a comment
          Yep, thanks

        • Arcanist
          Arcanist commented
          Editing a comment
          If Strength and Vigor are in could you allow perhaps the Adept Edge as well #AvatarTheLastAirbenderIsTheBest

      • #23
        Sean you're the man!

        Comment


        • #24
          Thanks for clarification, I like most changes.


          My biggest concern remains however: I imagine EFs as magic specialists..while LL Walkers focus on magical energy itself, Necromancers on entropic energies, EFs focus on the mastering of elements. They have nice versatile abilities, however, they have access only to a small list of powers on the beginning, which list becomes bigger only gradually. In order to match other spellcasters I would allow them to double PPs gained from Power Point Edge (but I would not grant them the Edge in the beginning).


          What I dont understand:

          Primal Conduit: Fusionists gain the Charismatic and Woodsman Edges, and may Syphon Power Points from willing elemental beings or sources of their life sign (by Size)
          - Do EFs as beings of the wild nature need the Charismatic Edge? It somehow doesnt fit them IMO.
          - The willing elemental being must be of the same element as the life sign of the EF?
          - What does it mean "(by Size)" in this context?
          - Do they gain the benefits from sites of primal energy of the elements they already master or only in case of sites based on their life sign?

          Elemental Brotherhood: Fusionists can see and uncannily converse with all elemental entities, including spirits of light/dark, even if invisible. Such beings see them as brothers and will offer or request aid if needed, though they aren't suicidal.
          - Can someone help me what Spirits of light/dark mean? Are such creatures available in the current books?

          Thnx for the help

          Comment


          • Radecliffe
            Radecliffe commented
            Editing a comment
            EF's need willing cooperation from elementals. Can't just order them to do things so persuasion rolls will be in order. Charisma is to help with that.

          • tbone9581
            tbone9581 commented
            Editing a comment
            Charismatic very much fits with the PR translation into SR.

            Maybe size is how
            Many ppts can be siphoned?
            Life sign is air, water, earth, fire... so only fire EFs can replenish from fire elementals.
            I thought one of the edges let them take additional life signs?

            Spirits of light and dark... Maybe a helpful ghost or a Sauron?

        • #25
          Originally posted by Arcanist View Post
          - The willing elemental being must be of the same element as the life sign of the EF?
          Nope, any elemental beings. They would probably need to make a social check to do it first though.


          Originally posted by Arcanist View Post
          - What does it mean "(by Size)" in this context?
          Sources of their life sign provide PPE by their Size. Size refers the calculation of ambient Power Points per the Siphon PPE rules in the TLPG.


          Originally posted by Arcanist View Post
          - Do they gain the benefits from sites of primal energy of the elements they already master or only in case of sites based on their life sign?
          I would think any that they have mastered as at least a ley line, and I would count a site associated with their life sign as a nexus point or otherwise provide bonus PP.


          Originally posted by Arcanist View Post
          Elemental Brotherhood: Fusionists can see and uncannily converse with all elemental entities, including spirits of light/dark, even if invisible. Such beings see them as brothers and will offer or request aid if needed, though they aren't suicidal.
          - Can someone help me what Spirits of light/dark mean? Are such creatures available in the current books?
          There aren't a ton of these yet, mostly just spirits of darkness, like the Shadow Beast. I hope to expand the spirits of light (and dark) in future supplements. For now I would say use the minions available from summon ally with light/darkness Trappings.



          Sean Owen Roberson
          Line Editor, Rifts for Savage Worlds

          Comment


          • mikelamroni
            mikelamroni commented
            Editing a comment
            In the Palladium source the Spirits of Light were elemental "angels", for lack of a better word. There was also some work in expanding the Shadow options in the source as well (Secrets of the Atlanteans, and other books). I would love to see something official on this. When I played my Shifter in 1.0 I used the Spirits of Light as my primary summons, though the stats we used were (retrapped) angels out of Shaintar for ease. They ended up being glass cannons, but as summons not too bad.

        • #26
          I have a question, with Elemental Fusion do you gain all of the listed powers or just the ability to later pick those powered when taking the new power edge?

          If the first is true then with the changes you have made you can start with 10-11 powers at character creation by picking 1 edge. If that is so then I do t know if you needed to move the powers chosen from 2 to 4 at creation.

          If the second is true then I feel you need to unlock 1 power when you pick your elemental fusion so you can have a more signature feel for the Fusionist without having to then immediately take the extra power edge. ( I'm specifically looking at making an earth/air Fusionist but want telekenetics since it is a signature feel from the Ultimant edition without having to take 2 edges at character creation instead of 1)

          Comment


          • Ndreare
            Ndreare commented
            Editing a comment
            Number 2 is correct but it is more complicated than just that nothing really needs added.
            You gain access to that power list and that trapping. This is important because you can switch trappings each time you cast the spell between the ones you have access to. So if you already have 3 spells that 1 edge effectively granted 3 more.
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