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  • Missing from the Elemental Fusionist

    I am really intrigued by the elemental fusionist. I am a big fan of the EF and the warlock so it is fun to see the Fusionist IF. The one presented looks pretty good I just thought there were a few things missing from it that would make it feel like the one presented in the PR Ultimate edition.

    elemental force: The fusionist is a force of nature. Coming from the wild and at one with the elements, they are truly attune to natures heart beat. They are stronger and tougher than most humans, and they have a certain wild charm complete with rugged good looks. +1 vigor die type, +1 str die type, Attractive edge. They gain Danger Sense in the wild areas. They also get a free reroll with the survival skill while in nature.

    in addition to the fusion synergy I thought a few more trappings might be good and flavor each pairing: these are pretty much based off a lot of the fusion powers from PR.
    • Fire/water:
      • Liquid Fire (+4): Works exactly like the lingering power modifier except there is no reduction in damage.
      • Firestorm: (1-4) For each power point spent the attack ignores 1 pt of cover upto 4pts.
    • Air/Earth
      • Hurl (+1): double the benefits from the range power modifier.
      • Air Hammer(1-3): A direct damage power (such as bolt, blast, or burst) may be more effective against targets with natural, body, or power armor. Each Power Point spent grants the power AP 5, to a maximum of AP 15. The AP provided by Air Hammer does not affect vehicles, constructs, or targets inside vehicles (including robot vehicles) and cannot be used in combination with the Armor Piercing Power Modifier.

    I also had a few more complications that I thought should apply to Elemental Fusionists based on their PR write up and even from the flavor text in the A &M book:
    • Mechanically un inclined: Gains the All Thumbs Hindrance.
    • Balance: Elemental Fusionists are always balancing their opposing forces, both within and without. If the Elemental Fusionist violates this balance in a minor way, give the character a –2 to his focus rolls for one week. A Major abrogation of this precarious balance robs him of all focus powers for one week. Egregious violations or repeated minor violations cause the character's Focus-based abilities to be forsaken until the imbalanced hero completes a great quest or task of restoration.
    • Cybernetics: Elemental Fusionists will never take on cybernetics and their powerful bond with nature means if for some reason they are so coerced to take any kind of implant they loose all their powers.
    • No place in a big city: The fusionist does not shine while disconnected from nature and in most places called cities have difficulty using their with their abilities and skills. They are at a -1 to all trait rolls in any place that is a city.
    • Conflicting Personality. Often times they are viewed as having a schizoid personality. The Fusionist must take 1 major or 2 minor additional hindrances that illustrate their dual nature.

    Ok those are all my suggestions, like I said I thought the one in A and M is good, but I felt their was just a little bit missing to get it all the way to what a fusionist should be. This is just an attempt to help.
    Last edited by tbone9581; 07-31-2019, 02:11 PM.

  • #2
    I like the idea of unique power modifiers as opposed to a blanket "synergy" bonus.

    VV

    Comment


    • #3
      While I was never an Elemental Fusionist fan (Warlock Forever!), I do like some of the mechanics introduced for them in A&M. But they are woefully underpowered as is, on par with a MARS package (without the MARS base abilities) rather than a full IF.

      ELEMENTAL FUSIONIST:
      HJ Rolls x2: 4 pts
      Fusion Trappings/Synergy: 6 pts (The reroll is a tad more limited than what the Mind Melter gets, and they don’t get it until they spend an Edge for the second element. The bonus damage and Toughness is worth at least an Edge, though)
      AB: Gifted: 1 pt (An Edge, but for some reason they start with 10 PP, not 15)
      Focus d6: 2 pts
      New Powers: 2 pts
      Elemental Brotherhood: 2 pts (Automatic detection is powerful, but targets are rare; does it affect True Invisibility?)
      Primal Conduit: 2 pts (since it's not something normally accessible to Gifted)
      Sense Life Sign: 2 pts (Situationally useful)
      Variable Trappings: 2 pts (basically Wizard)
      No other ABs: -1 pt
      Enemies: -2 pts
      Cybernetics: -1 (because they can’t take the cyber-psychic edge)
      Human Only: -1
      Power List: -2 (Still decent, but cut down significantly from wide-open Gifted baseline)
      Iconic Edge Access: 2 pts (pretty good)

      TOTAL = 18 pts. Other primary casters like the LLW, MM and Mystic clock in at 31-32. If AB: Gifted is changed and doesn’t give access to Mega modifiers, but EFs maintain that access, they go up 2 points. If they’re changed to AB: Miracles (which I personally think is more appropriate), but maybe let them ignore Power Activators … probably a wash.

      I think the Elemental Force boosts (~8 pts) and additional trappings/power modifiers that @tbone9581 suggests would get you most of the way there. Other possible additions would be Resistance (+4 Toughness/+4 to resist) vs. their attuned element(s) and/or some kind of regeneration when in contact with that element (ie. standing in a bonfire, exposed to a storm, buried in earth, etc.).

      Comment


      • tbone9581
        tbone9581 commented
        Editing a comment
        It seems like one of the EFs iconic edges is resistance, so I left it alone. I also aggree AB miracles seems a good choice. . My one other thought on something they sort of had in PR was a faster healing rate when connected to nature.

        Elemental Healing: make a natural healing roll once per day if near a large source of your chosen fusion elements. This is increased to once per hour if completely submerged with the element. Oops, I see you got it too.
        Last edited by tbone9581; 07-31-2019, 06:51 PM.

    • #4
      Not a fan of switching to AB(Miracles). Its not like they worship the land or Gaia or anything. For SR Gifted seems to work best IMO. Also, while Sean did say he was thinking WS would lose access to mega mods he never said the same thing in regards to Gifted to my knowledge.

      Disagree with some of the negatives. -1 just because only humans? I can't see the power list as a negative. It may start limited but it expands a LOT when you attune to additional elements. It's not like you can take 10 powers at chargen anyway. Few IF's get the ability to expand their power lists as they advance. AB(Gifted) in the TLPG also says players and GM's are expected to agree on a limited power list appropriate to the character so it's not like Gifted normally gets all the powers either. No other AB's being a negative is also debatable. Lack of access to TW items is the big drawback but they can still use Enchanted items.

      In other news resistance to attuned elements seems like a worthwhile add.

      Comment


      • tbone9581
        tbone9581 commented
        Editing a comment
        Good points. Gifted seems interesting. My gut went with miracles be they are very connected to the land and Isimiliar to miracles would be a good fit to some kind of vow or obligation type Hindrence where if they did not maintain the balance both within and without they could loose effectivness in casting. But that being said gifted seems like a good choice as well because of the mutant type nature of their a abilities. Mostly my concern was that the EF was missing a sense of being stronger and tougher, more attuned to nature’s heart beat etc. As well as some additional fusion trappings. The arcane background was the least of my concerns.
        Last edited by tbone9581; 07-31-2019, 07:23 PM.

    • #5
      I valued them the same way I valued everything else, so it's apples to apples. Part of that starts with the assumption that the ABs are balanced against each other, so I just add or subtract points based on how the IF implements a specific AB (Gifted here) rather than comparing to other ABs. So, no negative points for not using TW items, because standard Gifted doesn't get that. And -2 for restricted power access is fairly mild -- they are missing some significant powers like Healing, Shapechange, Teleport, etc., and others are walled off at character creation (which is what I'm rating) and unavailable until they spend resources. The extra oomph they get from spending those Edges later is reflected in the Iconic Edge access bonus.

      Regardless, quibbling over a point here or there ignores the forest for the trees -- they're waaay behind other casting classes, which already are at the bottom end of the spectrum with regard to build points. You could knock out all of the negatives you mentioned and they're still 10 pts (roughly 1/3) behind.

      Comment


      • #6
        As someone who enjoyed the Elemental Fusionist back when it came out in Ultimate Edition I found this very underwhelming and a complete let down. The fact that you don't start out with both of your elements puzzles me, then the fusion power while very nice is also very limiting had in the case of air/earth compleatly different from what they were originally. Next they lost any self healing and added strength, vigor, and wilderness connection. The only thing I do like is that they are gifted that is a nice change but as they are they are still vastly underpowered and lack a lot of the original feel of the class.

        Comment


        • tbone9581
          tbone9581 commented
          Editing a comment
          In a way it felt like a hybrid between the warlock and elemental fusionist. The life signs for example are no where near the fusionist and are in fact the domain of the warlock. I agree with you that a fusionist should have a pairing to start, otherwise you are just playing an elementalist.

      • #7
        A lot of good ideas in this thread. I'll have to keep checking it to make sure I'm ngaged with what happens with this I.F.!

        Comment


        • tbone9581
          tbone9581 commented
          Editing a comment
          Lol, +1 benny dude.

        • Tribe of One
          Tribe of One commented
          Editing a comment
          Bennies are the real Price of Power.

      • #8
        Originally posted by MikePGS View Post
        A lot of good ideas in this thread. I'll have to keep checking it to make sure I'm ngaged with what happens with this I.F.!
        I agree completely. The IF needs some work, it has a real promise of power, I would hate to see it dropped. Lets see if we can engage the design team on this and see if we can get it fixed, rather than have to console anyone who plays one in the future.

        Comment


        • #9
          Originally posted by Ndreare View Post

          I agree completely. The IF needs some work, it has a real promise of power, I would hate to see it dropped. Lets see if we can engage the design team on this and see if we can get it fixed, rather than have to console anyone who plays one in the future.
          Given how they have been working on the core book I believe that the design team take head of any concerns that we raise.

          Comment


          • Ndreare
            Ndreare commented
            Editing a comment
            I have an very high confidence in the design team.

          • Tribe of One
            Tribe of One commented
            Editing a comment
            Yeah, they've been very N-Gaged.

          • Ndreare
            Ndreare commented
            Editing a comment
            Yes they have. There is a lot of promise in their engagement.

        • #10
          Nokia telling how far they'll go.

          Comment


          • #11
            Have to say I agree with almost all of what tbone is saying. EFs have a crud-ton of promise and I LOOOOVE my magma EF (yes I homebrewed a new fusion, sue me). Like in my other thread (sorry, I never saw this post), there's a couple things I'd add to his comments.

            Increased Healing: Give them Slow Regeneration in the wild, or Fast while in a Place of Elemental Power matching their life sign?

            PP: Don't start them at 10 for god's sake. 15 like other Gifted. EFs already are going to be behind the trend when it comes to PP usage since they can't get Master Psionics or Master of Magic to double their PP like other IF's. My EF is ALWAYS running out of PP within the first couple rounds. There was a thing in the original OCC about them costing more PP to use their powers in cities.... I dunno about that. The -1 to all Trait rolls in cities covers this, but that might be a tad too harsh for them........

            Elemental Force: I'd go with what tbone says 99%. I'd just change Attractive to Charismatic. The rugged force of their personality doesn't exactly mean they're sexy, they just are charming and can use their strength of personality to get their own way. As far as the reroll in wilderness, why not just give them Woodsman?

            Comment


            • tbone9581
              tbone9581 commented
              Editing a comment
              Charismatic sounds good. Regeneration seems in line with the flavor of their PR abilities. And heck yeah why 10 ppts? A typo?

            • ValhallaGH
              ValhallaGH commented
              Editing a comment
              MoM doesn't double power points. That's a LLW exclusive ability.

            • magusrogue
              magusrogue commented
              Editing a comment
              Still there's so far behind in pp anyway

          • #12
            I rolled up an EF, and I'm somewhat underwhelmed. They definitely need something. They look like they're set to be a really dynamic and powerful contribution to the team, but fall short.

            From my perspective, a big portion of this seems to be a lack of PP. There's no way to start this guy out the gate without spending at least one edge on PP management.

            If he could start with the base 15 PP of the AB (Gifted) that would be a good start. I don't know anything about Palladium Rifts, but is adding the Channeling edge to the IF viable? Something along the lines of the EF drawing elemental energy from the environment to reduce the cost of the power.

            15 PP and Channeling would be a nifty start. As is written, I felt obligated to pick up Power Points and Rapid Recharge out the gate. If the power selection wasn't so limited, I would have taken Channeling too instead of Elemental Attunement

            Comment


            • Koshnek
              Koshnek commented
              Editing a comment
              I didn't take into account Shorting and spending a Benny for PP when I wrote the above. Even then, however, I feel like they need some kind of boost to PP and/or its management.

          • #13
            Me again. I was looking into Primal Conduit to understand how Siphoning an elemental works then I found this in the setting rules for SWADE TLPG v2:

            Individuals with PPE-based Arcane Backgrounds may take PPE from willing allies as a free action. Unless noted otherwise, beings without a PPE-based Arcane Background have Size+4 ambient PPE available, which recharges at the rate of 1 PPE per hour of rest.
            Siphoning PPE has a Range of the siphoner's Smarts, and any PPE beyond the siphoner's maximum must be used immediately or as part of a Ritual (see above), with any excess dissipating immediately.
            Summon Ally is on all 4 element lists. Is it intended for you to be able to summon elementals and siphon their energy? A starting character could drop 5 PP through the mega modifier to summon 4 elementals (2pp +1+1+1). At size 0 that’s 4 pp per elemental. Spend 5 pp to net 11?
            Last edited by Koshnek; 08-10-2019, 03:59 PM.

            Comment


            • Koshnek
              Koshnek commented
              Editing a comment
              A seasoned rank EF with with Legendary Summon Ally and 20 PP could summon 4 heroic elementals (just going off the SWADE writeup) for 20 PP (8PP + [4PPx3] which are size 2 for a net gain of 4 PP. So the combo scales .

            • Radecliffe
              Radecliffe commented
              Editing a comment
              Summon ally is now a novice power and Born a Hero does not affect use of that power. So a seasoned EF uses the power at seasoned level. This is an excellent change from SWD.

            • Koshnek
              Koshnek commented
              Editing a comment
              Ah. I did not know about that change. However, that still doesn't affect the primary issue in scenario from the main post above.

          • #14
            Does the Life Sign Harmony edge make you bulletproof if your life sign is earth?

            Comment


            • michael.madore
              michael.madore commented
              Editing a comment
              I have no idea. I'd like to know as well!

          • #15

            Iam very grateful that this IF is included in A&M.I love the versatility of elemental fusionists (“EFs”) and their ability to learn all of the elements: even the opposite one (fire<-> water). They are much more complex than simple battle mages. Unfortunately, they are weaker than other arcane IF-s in the beginning, given that they have a short power list and less powers and PPs available than other IFs with an Arcane Background. A big portion of their abilities can be unlocked only gradually, which you have to purchase from advances instead of gaining them free from the beginning. Once more other Arcane Backgrounds provide access to a lot of cool Edges which are not available for Gifted. So here are my thoughts and suggestions:


            Modification suggestions to developers:
            • Please make the power level of EFs equal to other arcane powerhouses like Mind Melters. I suggest that the second element will be granted “free” during character creation.
            • In addition please allow EF-s to double their PP-s gained from the Power Point Edge similar to Ley Line Walkers (or even the PPs gained from the Arcane Background similar to Mind Melters).
            • Given that several arcane IFs start with more powers (Mind Melter 5, Ley Line Walker 4, Burster 3), I would grant access to 3 powers in the beginning + Detect Arcana (which could be of course later expanded by purchasing the Elemental Attunement Edge and New Powers Edge).
            • The list of available powers is short compared to other IFs: 13-15 powers with 2 elements, and even if they spend advances, they have access to 21 powers with four elements + 4-5 fusion powers, while the Mind Melter’s list include 21 powers, the Ley Line Walker’s list 43 powers. I would recommend to expand the default/element power list with powers that are now available only with the Warlock Edge. For example Blind would be a cool power for both Fire or Earth.
            • It would be cool if players had more elemental fusion combos to choose from: eg magma (fire/earth), mud (water/earth), mist/rain/cold (water/air) (a sidenote: Hellfrost sawo setting has a lot of cool elemental examples: coldfire, dust, ice, lava, mud, slush, steam)
            • Modification ideas to existing fusions: "lightning" could work as fire/air fusion, while the earth/air fusion could be “gravitation/force” instead of “lightning” (or simply: “dust”). Fire/water combo could be not only steam but ice/cold as well, if you consider “fire” as a symbol for temperature.
            • I would add an Edge that would expand “Sense Life Sign” ability to all elements and fusion elements known (or this could be the default ability).
            • I would add “Shapechange” to the standard EF power list with the Aspect restriction: shapechange to Elementals only (sidenote: Hellfrost setting has a cool new power called Elemental Form
            • It would be cool if EF-s could purchase the Adept Edge. Avatar The Last Airbender style is a great concept for EF-s ).
            • It would be cool, if EFs could purchase the One with Magic Edge, or a similar one based on elements instead of on ley lines. Especially the Veteran ability is appropriate..elementals do not age...why shall EF-s?
            • It would be cool if the Warlock Edge could be purchased right after the fourth element is bound and one should not wait until Legendary Rank.
            • It would be cool if EF-s could use Rituals
            • It would be cool, if the Tomorrow Legion Field Manual’s elemental rules would include some special options for EFs.


            What should be cleared
            • Life Sign Harmony: What are the exact effects of “immune to negative conditions”? If I choose air, the character cannot be suffocated (in case of water: drowned)? If I choose air or water, no vision penalties apply from foggy weather? etc?
            • Life Sign Harmony 2: Do EF-s gain the Mega version of the two “Innate Abilities”?
            • Life Sign Harmony 3: Suggestion: I would introduce an Edge that expands the use and bonuses of Life Sign Harmony to alI elements/fusion elements known by the character.
            • Elemental Brotherhood: I assume that this ability allows EF-s to communicate with elemental beings. Please clear how this is carried out (language? telepathically?)
            • Pls Clear the use of Primal Conduit / Places of power. As far as I understand EF-s trait natural places and elemental focus points as ley lines/nexus points. Does this mean that they gain a faster PP regeneration rate (double/triple) as well? Does this ability work only with my life sign or with all of the elements known?
            • Primal Conduit / Places of power 2: What kind of locations count as “places of power”. In case of fire, bonfires are the example. However the other elements are more common, air and earth are everywhere, but I assume that simply walking outdoors shall not count as ley line. In my understanding every place where an element is more dominant than the others count as place of power while a location where an element is exceptionally strong count as nexus point. Examples:
              • Fire: flames from bonfire to burning houses
              • Water: natural water like rivers, lakes, ocean shore
              • Earth: walking in the desert, caves near to the surface, or mountain terrain
              • Air: special weather phenomena like fog, rain, strong wind
              • Nexus points: fire: near to a volcano/burning city, water: swimming/boating in an ocean far from the shore or swimming underwater in a lake/sea, earth: meditating in an underground cave or within a mountain, air: near to a tornado/storm, being on a mountaintop or flying high above the ground/in the clouds

            Comment


            • illiniscooby
              illiniscooby commented
              Editing a comment
              I like the EF, but the framework is a little underwhelming so either increase his power based on suggestions above or leave as is and make it a MARS package. Then they would be a lot of fun.

            • Tribe of One
              Tribe of One commented
              Editing a comment
              It's actually a point or two short of most MARS packages if you ignore the HJ rolls.
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