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Machine Maestro, Mutilated

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  • #31
    Reducing the penalties certainly helps, but I still find the revised TW to be pretty uninspiring, due to the action economy issues in SWADE, nerf to Machine Maestro and resource sink into item creation, which is great for groups but GM-dependent and not player-friendly. The vastly increased versatility of other casters doesn’t leave the TW with much that’s compelling — they aren’t even the best at using TW gear, due to lower PP and multiple skill demands. Heck, even something that let them use Techno-Wizardry for all trait rolls when activating TW devices, or a discount on charging with PPE, etc.

    Iconic wielder of Techno-Wizardry is a much more interesting concept for a player character than Iconic Crafter, and more consistently viable across different styles of campaign.

    (I understand basing MM on Telemechanics, but Telemechanics itself is pretty uninspiring and fails to do what everyone wants it to do and instead converts the PR rules, rather than the concept. Hence the thread on the Psi-Operator.)

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    • Scottbert
      Scottbert commented
      Editing a comment
      The wielder vs crafter distinction is an interesting one. I'm not sure how to properly handle it this far into development, though.

      1. Add edges that make TWs better at using TW gear. Problem: Messes up layout, means the TW can't do this out of the gate.
      2. Change the TW to focus on TW gear use, with edges to pick up crafting. Problem: Messes up layout, means the occasional person who WANTS to craft (but are there any?) can't out of the gate.
      3. Split the framework into two MOSs, specializing in wielding or crafting with the option to pick up the other through edges. Heck with layout for sure.
      4. Have the TW IF give basic abilities common to all TWs and a number of free edges from a list to invest further in wielding and/or crafting as the player likes. Same problems as above.

  • #32
    Tribe of One I really like your thought of iconic weilder of TW. I am sure it has been brought up, but my vote would be to let them use any power modifier they have access to with TW items(essentially treat the TW item like shadow cloak as if they knew the invisibility power and could add on true invisibility when they cast using it). That would seem to be enough for me.
    Last edited by tbone9581; 09-18-2019, 06:48 PM.

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    • #33
      As is, the base TW framework is several points behind other casters. They need something added into the base IF.

      Not so coincidentally, the original version of Machine Maestro accomplished exactly this, granting a general bonus to the use of magic, TW and tech that made Techno-Wizards expert wielders of the things they built. Since restoring that bonus is apparently off the table, I think an alternative fix is as simple as adding these two sentences to the end of Machine Maestro:

      In addition, when using TW weapons and gear, Machine Maestro allows a Techno-Wizard to substitute the Techno-Wizardry skill for any trait roll required to activate or attack with the item. When charging or activating a TW item, a Techno-Wizard pays half the normal cost, rounded up.

      That brings the TW closer to par with the LLW and MM, and gives you a reason to amass lots of TW tech (and convert all their traditional gear to TW). It also addresses the issue TWs have with so many skill demands, by allowing them to sub in a core skill for for Fighting/Shooting or even Piloting when using TW tech. And as of v.4 of the TLPG, there's room to add those lines, with the displaced Complications text shifting into the blank space on p. 53.
      Last edited by Tribe of One; 09-18-2019, 08:42 PM.

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      • PEGRoberson
        PEGRoberson commented
        Editing a comment
        Well they just got Item Creation for free, which is quite powerful.

      • Tribe of One
        Tribe of One commented
        Editing a comment
        We disagree about that, bigly. It is quite useful for the group, in some campaigns and with some GMs. Much of the time, it's doing nothing for the TW.

    • #34
      Item Creation is cool, when you have the resources and time to do it. But it is highly GM-style dependent and can easily be eclipsed in a more frantic play style (moving from plot point to plot point with little rest time and definitely no time out of the vehicles on stable ground for working on TW. I do like the idea of TW's being better at using TW weapons than most - using their TW skill to activate them. That fits the lore. No one understands TW items like a TW. That was true when I played one for about 8 years in the Palladium rules set.

      I definitely agree something is missing. There's some good options in this thread to choose or build from.

      Comment


      • Scottbert
        Scottbert commented
        Editing a comment
        Maybe we have different ideas about how item creation will work out in practice -- I personally certainly haven't had a chance to test it! How does PEGRoberson imagine the TW making use of it in a typical game?

      • mikelamroni
        mikelamroni commented
        Editing a comment
        We have had multiple TWs in multiple games for SR 1.0 on Savagerifts.com and while a few make use of loot and tinker and build for their party (rarely for themselves, largely due to their ability to create something on the fly), many GMs run a play style that promotes being on the move. It's hard to do work like that. It CAN be done. I mean a minor modification only takes 2d6 hours. but that is 2d6 hours the entire group has to be stopped, per attempt - and not stopped sleeping, actually stopped. If you're static, its no big deal. Or if you want to take penalties for working on the move in a jerking and jumping vehicle (no paved roads, after all).

        Now if the narrative supports having days off, having a few days to go relax and do what you want, then its fine. But not every GM wants to run that. And the blithe answer is "well don't play a TW in that type of game" except that's a crap answer. Anyone can craft now. TWs may be better at it, but nearly any arcane user can craft. TWs being best at crafting doesn't give them a pass on being effective in battle.

      • MadAlchemist1234
        MadAlchemist1234 commented
        Editing a comment
        It is also less usable then in SR1 since now you can't do a minor mod on any found TW items.

    • #35
      I was reading over the TW in PR and the TLPG. It struck me that the TW has an almost Telemechanic lvl of connection with machines. It seems their ability to understand machines is intuitive. I was wondering if the following could be an alternative to machine maestro:

      Machine Maestro: A Techno-Wizard can interface with machines by touch— including vehicles, weapons, computers, electronic devices, and robots. They gain all the benefits of the Telemechanic edge for machines and technowizard devices without having to activate mind link. It is always on(with a range of touch). Furthermore they are considered to have the trade mark weapon edge for technowizard weapons, and lastly when on a leyline they receive +4 to pilot, drive, ride, or boat any technowizard vehicle.

      PEGRoberson I realize it is late in the process but I was just struck by some inspiration from reading PR, and the TLPG as well as reading comments and talking to a few other active community members.

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      • PEGRoberson
        PEGRoberson commented
        Editing a comment
        Please post this idea in Castle Refuge.

      • tbone9581
        tbone9581 commented
        Editing a comment
        will do

    • #36
      Ah, but in a TW, the boat is NOT the target of the fly, it is the Mechanism of the fly. You do not make the boat fly, the boat makes you fly and comes along.

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      • #37
        Originally posted by tbone9581 View Post
        Tribe of One I really like your thought of iconic weilder of TW. I am sure it has been brought up, but my vote would be to let them use any power modifier they have access to with TW items(essentially treat the TW item like shadow cloak as if they knew the invisibility power and could add on true invisibility when they cast using it). That would seem to be enough for me.
        This could be a low text way of boosting and defining the TW. For everyone else a device can only do what a TW built it to do but a TW could tweak the fields during used to add a selective modifer.

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