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  • Holy Trapping - Not in Preview But...

    Is there any chance of getting the Holy trapping limited o AB miracles?


    This especially matters wit Magic users and Techno Wizards being able to adapt Trappings. Often times players re tempted to try and ignore logic of their death dealing murderer suddenly having Holy trapping on their Bolt spells. It would be nice if I did not have to rely solely on my Fiat as a GM for restricting Holy to miracles.


    PS: I know this may not be popular with players. But I think it will make sense and perhaps be popular with GMs.

  • #2
    It actually makes sense to me.

    Also opens up the very interesting possibility of special dispensations...like if a particular mage has proven themselves a stalwart ally of some cosmic force of good, giving them access to Holy magic would be a very special and treasured reward.

    And of course, could be revoked if they returned to their murder-hobo ways.

    Comment


    • Ndreare
      Ndreare commented
      Editing a comment
      I like that idea. I feel better as a GM when I fiat allowing something, than I do when I fiat not allowing something.

      And maybe (I am not holding m breath) it would encourage more than just the Cyber-knight to be heroic.

  • #3
    I do think CKs should have access to it, as well, simply because of their flavor. But that gives a good grounding for how you qualify for it--if you don't have AB: Miracles, you need a Code of Honor that gets you into the same moral mindset.

    Comment


    • Ndreare
      Ndreare commented
      Editing a comment
      Good point. I did not consider the Cyber-Knight.

    • Akerbakk
      Akerbakk commented
      Editing a comment
      Lord Coake agrees with your statement.

    • PEGRoberson
      PEGRoberson commented
      Editing a comment
      CKs do have the Champion Edge though, so that makes sense as another path to access the Trapping

  • #4
    Well, dang. I'm sorry I missed this thread! It's a pretty good one, and though I thought I read all of them but there a ton of late nights and I may not have fully grokked the discussion.

    Although it is a bit too late to change the printed books, I could definitely see this being errata. What does everyone think, is it worth that?
    Sean Owen Roberson
    Line Manager, Rifts for Savage Worlds

    Comment


    • #5
      IMHO, it would b worth errata for Holy to be restricted to miracle users and champions. But i think you know that. Lets hope enough people still follow who concur.

      Comment


      • #6
        Certainly makes sense to me.

        Comment


        • #7
          This would exclude many of the old gods who were neither good nor evil but instead embodied a force of nature such as lightning, or a realm of human activity such as strategy and tactics. Under the RAW, an Asgardian Techno-Wizard can channel the power of Odin or Thor, the older, pre-Marvel versions who were fairly bloody minded, to create vampire killing weapons, and a mage with the Wizard edge may know a spell originally created by Mars or Athena.

          Comment


          • Ndreare
            Ndreare commented
            Editing a comment
            For consideration there.
            1) The game is not representing Gods it is representing player characters many steps bellow.
            2) When those gods give power to their mortal champions (AB miracles to PCs) they would in-turn be able to harness the Holy trapping.
            3) It is not about your personal "realistic" views of gods. But about the game mechanic of what is holy. Holy literally means set apart, there is a reason why when that man with faith blesses your weapon it kills vampires better than when the spell caster does. it is because he gets the power from something bigger than himself.

            That said, while i do see your point, I disagree with you. I just do not think the Asgardians are really wielding holy or divine power.

        • #8
          I’m not overly familiar with the source material, but I do like the idea of only holy types, or those following some kind of code / otherwise blessed such as a champion, having access to the holy trapping.

          I don’t have a good argument. But it’s familiar and makes sense.

          Comment


          • Koshnek
            Koshnek commented
            Editing a comment
            And, honestly, I assumed this was already the case. I was surprised to read it was not.

        • #9
          I'd like to see the following:

          "Holy" Trapping is limited to AB: Faith, Champions, or characters with ranks in the Faith Skill.
          In the case of a non-AB: MIracles user with the Faith Skill, the character casts Holy Trapping Powers with the LOWER of Faith or AB's Arcane Skill.

          This matches a lot of historical magic practitioners of the Hermetic Order variety, and fictional portrayals of such. (Think Witch Hunter Robin, for instance.) So your Gnostic Catholic Vatican secret agent can cast either a regular fire blast, or can call upon divine wrath--but the latter requires exceptional faith as well as skill at spellcasting.

          Comment


          • steelbrok
            steelbrok commented
            Editing a comment
            That seems fair, if another AB wants to benefit from the trapping they have to "prove their faith" by investing time and effort (advances)

        • #10
          Originally posted by Freemage View Post
          I'd like to see the following:

          "Holy" Trapping is limited to AB: Faith, Champions, or characters with ranks in the Faith Skill.
          In the case of a non-AB: MIracles user with the Faith Skill, the character casts Holy Trapping Powers with the LOWER of Faith or AB's Arcane Skill.

          This matches a lot of historical magic practitioners of the Hermetic Order variety, and fictional portrayals of such. (Think Witch Hunter Robin, for instance.) So your Gnostic Catholic Vatican secret agent can cast either a regular fire blast, or can call upon divine wrath--but the latter requires exceptional faith as well as skill at spellcasting.

          I like this, it works well. It would be affected like to AB miracles. Such as a Faithful of Thor losing his powers for being deceitful and running from battle.

          Comment


          • #11
            IMO, a "holy" trapping should require one of AB (Miracles) -- and if so, then only for those powers -- or Champion. Those (along with Holy Warrior, which requires Miracles already) are the classic "holy" edges in Savage Worlds, after all. While I respect what Freemage is suggesting, I think allowing Faith skill to be a prereq is fussy and complex.

            EDIT: Actually, let me suggest throwing Holy Warrior in there explicitly as well. That way, if some later package includes Holy Warrior without AB (Miracles) -- because that sort of weird stuff can happen in Savage Rifts -- you're still covered.
            Last edited by pkitty; 01-22-2020, 01:49 AM.

            Comment


            • #12
              Seems a pretty unanimous opinion. Only the line moves a little.
              PEGRoberson

              Comment


              • #13
                I strongly disagree with this being official errata. It would invalidate a very cool character I’ve had in a game: a Ley Line Walker who channeled ley energy from angelic realms through Rifts. It was very neat to have an “arcane” approach to using “divine” energy . It would be very lame for official errata to say that this player doesn’t get to play that way.

                If players are using trappings inappropriate to their character concepts, it’s the GM’s role to stop that, if they want. The game allows magic users a lot of leeway in how they flavor their powers. Let’s keep it that way. If it’s abusive, GMs can step in.

                The real issue is that the antagonist selection includes many opponents weak to holy trappings and much fewer who are weak to other sources, so CharOp types are attracted to holy trappings on their powers. Include more opponents weak to electricity, acid, fire, cold, etc in future books, and those trappings will feel more useful to players who care about that.

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