No announcement yet.

Dragon metamorphosis and them dying

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Dragon metamorphosis and them dying

    Hi, I posted a question in the official Q&A forum which can be read here

    I wanted to make the question "What happens with dragons in human form and their surroundings when they die?" up to discussion since Mr.Roberson put this in the hand of the SLs. (which thanks to a unexpected change of events now is me, which means the group will probably never have to deal with this thing anyway since my old PC will split from them)

    The question for me is manyfold. For once, the human form obviously isn't a spell that needs to be maintained or dragons wouldn't be able to regenerate while in human form and would have to roll when wounded or change back. But if it's a basicly permanent spell then by all means they should be staying human even after dying.

    Then again, while I realize that the "equipment gets absorbed into the dragon form" is basicly for the reason that they dont find themselfs naked after changing from dragon back to human form again, since the dragon form is their natural form and probably doesn't hold special flesh pockets for storing stuff it doesn't make sense to me that it's just a metamorphosis in the first place.

    Our old GM said, and I dont know where he got it from, that the dragon basicly switched with another form of itself in kind of like a pocket dimension. So that would mean if he turns into a human, then the dragon in his dragonform switches places with his human form that was in said pocket dimension all along. If he changes back, the "human him" and especialy his equipment doesn't get integrated into his body but is stored back into the pocket dimension and the dragonform takes his place again. That could also explain why some equipment is "integrated" an some is not, because the pocket dimension has limited size and therefor anything bigger then that cant go there.

    In the above case the dead dragon would probably stay in "human form" since that is his current state of existance in this plane. But that would leave the potential problem that if the dragon was in dragonform while he died, anything his human self was carrying would be unreachable, since it also would stay in the pocket dimension.

    And those are just my bits about that conundrum. I would be happy to hear what your thoughts about the "Dead Dragon Metamorphosis Conundrum" are.

  • #2
    If you're going with this "pocket dimension" concept, I'd allow other characters to perform a magical ritual to "shift" a dead dragon into it's alternate form if it holds a needed item captive.


    • #3
      The pocket dimension sounds reasonable. If using it, I'd rule that the pocket dimension collapses and disgorges its contents when the dragon dies
      (Yes, that could lead to both human and dragon bodies needing to be buried!)


      • #4
        Sorry, duplicate post


        • #5
          When in doubt, I like to check the original Palladium Rifts (PR) source material:

          "Metamorphosis: A natural ability common to most dragons enabling the character to completely alter his physical shape, transforming himself to look like any living animal, from human being to cat."

          That's consistent with the way it's described in Savage Rifts, indicating that there was no intentional change in how it works (other than giving dragons just one form to start). Therefore, this is the dragon altering their physical shape, not swapping into a pocket dimension.

          Now the bit about "absorbing gear" is unique to Savage Rifts, and was obviously added because... well, it's complicated. As I understand it, here's the logic, chain of decisions, etc.:

          1. In PR, dragons in human form keep all of their defensive abilities (armor, full Toughness, etc.) As far as armor goes, it's just noted that "They never wear [it]."

          2. In SR, it's truer to SW to let dragon characters do whatever they want. Basically, SW players are less likely to accept that they don't have a say in what their character is or is not willing to do. So that restriction wasn't included.

          3. With that change, though, a dragon-human in power armor become far more terrifying than a dragon in its natural form! That completely broke the way the setting is supposed to work.

          4. So dragons got nerfed to be very vulnerable in their human form. So now you can (and in fact should!) wear armor as a dragon-human, and nothing breaks if you decide to operate a SAMAS.

          5. But now we have dragon-humans wearing armor who have to get undressed to become dragons? Naw, that's silly, so let's just say that the armor gets absorbed when they transform.

          The net result is that "it's magic." Dragons are creatures of magic and so their magical metamorphosis lets them absorb their armor and carried gear into their dragon bodies when they use metamorphosis in SR. But still no pocket dimensions, because it's a physical transformation.


          • #6
            Thanks pkitty for the excursion into the PR source. It's nice to know.

            That being said, since I have become the GM of our group now and "it's magic" is a reasoning I realy dislike, especialy just for convinience reasons (as if being naked would be the end of the world) to counter the result of an completly unneccesary change of the source (they should have just kept the "Dragons keep their natural armor, Toughness and Wounds in any form. They also never wear any other armor").


            • Deskepticon
              Deskepticon commented
              Editing a comment
              Or... if a dragon in human form wears armor and doesn't remove it before changing back, the armor is bursted and completely ruined. If the armor was tough (i.e., metal) it causes an immediate and unSoakable Wound.

            • paladin2019
              paladin2019 commented
              Editing a comment
              Or worn armor doesn't stack with Dragon Hide.

            • R-Cane
              R-Cane commented
              Editing a comment
              Lol, I just realized that I was so tired when I wrote it that I didn't finish my sentence. What I wanted to say is that I wont go with the absorbs equipment through magic. And I think if they just wanted to make sure that you dont get the smaller tank in a larger tank problem, they should've just gone with what paladin said. And while the idea of Deskepticon sounded realistic and funny to me first, on second thought I wouldn't go with the wound since I would argue that they at that point already have the dragon strength and natural armor trying to push free.