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  • Long-term Bindings

    So, based off of PEGRoberson's answer here, my GM (who does like the idea of a long-term minion) came up with what we think is a fairly balanced approach. Part of this was based on some official PR lore about what 'really' happens when a Demon or Deevil 'dies' on the mortal plane.:

    1: The Bound minion will be contracted for a set task (basically, a given session/mission). He'll generally Advance at 1/2 rate, after mission completion.
    2: The minion must be resummoned at the start of the next mission--if he's Advanced enough to be more expensive, that's when the new price gets paid (this avoids the 'run amok' issue, unless of course I roll a CritFail on the summon ally, per Diabolist).
    3: If the minion is killed, based on the official PR lore in the Hades Dimension Book, he'll be 'out of commission' for one full session, at least (maybe longer, depending on how much downtime might be involved)--so 'death' is still both an inconvenience, and a long-term setback (since that session won't count for the minion's Advances, either).
    4: And yes, each re-Summon requires a fresh opposed Spirit roll. I fully expect at least one Advance will get spent on the demon's Spirit (the GM controls those Advances).

    This gives us a few roleplay advantages:

    1: Continuity of character, allowing the minion to be a fleshed-out NPC.
    2: In-setting, it actually explains why the Lords of Hades allow their minions to accept long-term Summons in the first place--serving mortals, beyond generating the opportunity for corrupting them, also allows the demon minions to become more powerful, in turn making them better foot-soldiers in the infernal war with Dyvaal (and vice-versa, of course). A minor demon who spends a considerable amount of time 'contracted' with a Shifter can thus gain half a dozen or more Edges, Skill-bumps and Attribute increases over the base book stats.

    Just thought I'd throw this out here for folks who also like the idea of a long-term summon 'sticking around', while still adhering to the overall rules.

  • #2
    Originally posted by Freemage View Post
    So, based off of PEGRoberson's answer here, my GM (who does like the idea of a long-term minion) came up with what we think is a fairly balanced approach. Part of this was based on some official PR lore about what 'really' happens when a Demon or Deevil 'dies' on the mortal plane.:

    3: If the minion is killed, based on the official PR lore in the Hades Dimension Book, he'll be 'out of commission' for one full session, at least (maybe longer, depending on how much downtime might be involved)--so 'death' is still both an inconvenience, and a long-term setback (since that session won't count for the minion's Advances, either).
    This sounds really cool for the right kind of game. Though I will add that when it comes to demons, according to the lore it takes demons decades (usually 30 to 60 years) to finish the rebirth process—much longer than one session, and outside the scope of all but the longest-running campaigns...plus the demon loses a level and is permanently scarred. This would also probably only apply to Hades, Dyval, and similar demons bound to a specific plane of evil and not "proto-demons" like the gargoyles, brodkil, etc. though this is a pretty grey area.

    That said, I'm always a sucker for the "rule of cool" and your ideas could lead to some really great stories!
    Last edited by PEGRoberson; 01-09-2020, 07:45 AM.
    Sean Owen Roberson
    Line Manager, Rifts for Savage Worlds

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    • Freemage
      Freemage commented
      Editing a comment
      Agreed on the limitation of Hades, Dyval and similar planar demons. And I reread the description in Hades of the reincorporation process, and you're right, there (I was thinking "decades+" only applied to The Long Rebirth, but it also applies to the grislier Host process. I think I'm going to suggest that speeding up the process also requires the Diabolist to know the Demon's True Name (which, after all, is one of those things that, in lore and fiction, is supposed to matter a great deal, but almost never seems to get reflected in game mechanics). You can summon, say, an Alu without its true name, but you have to acquire it to be able to get the same Alu every time you call one up for Binding (and thus getting the Advance advantages). And then I'll further suggest that getting a demon to give up its true name is another bargaining session (and thus, a Social Conflict followed by a Corruption Test).

    • PEGRoberson
      PEGRoberson commented
      Editing a comment
      Very cool ideas!

  • #3
    There are myths of beings who when you do this, they are not personally coming, but instead a bit of their essence, like an avatar.
    In a case like that the true demon is learning and growing, while his avatar adventures with you.


    Elementals likewise in old palladium were energy beings. Only the greatest werre distinct beings, the others were just essences. Even when fighting the godlike major elementals, Killing their body did not kill them, it just released them unless you killed the energy being itself.

    So maybe Gaspard Summons a demon from a plane like that. Proditione he is actually in a contract with Proditione's creator and Gaspard's Proditione is just an Avatar/Mirror Self of the real Proditione who gains experience and earthly knowledge from the trade?

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    • PEGRoberson
      PEGRoberson commented
      Editing a comment
      Correct, they smaller essence fragments return to "Nirvana" with the mega being they originally split off of. I just imagine them losing their previous sense of "self" when that happens; i.e. the familiar being was "killed" or dispersed to never return in that unique incarnation.
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