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  • Super power companion and Savage Worlds Rifts

    My group is getting ready to start a Savage Worlds Rift's and I have thought about playing either a Dragon youngling or a super powered character.
    - Since the Arcane background super powers is available in the main book a Rifts character should be able to pick powers but the powers seem more in line with the spells rather than powers.
    Example main book Fly and super power companion Flight are very different. Having fly as a super power does not make any sense, since you would only get 3 rounds of flying per points spent. Gaining flight is much better and make sense as a super power.
    - When playing Rifts are the any "Official Rules" on how to use the Super power companion?

  • #2
    I am not sure about an "official" rule but from what I can remember someone said that a basic Four Color level character out of SPC was about equal to most standard IF characters. Use all the standard SPC rules, create a Four Color hero, and when you are done you should have a good Novice level character.
    I have way too much time but do not always edit myself properly. Please do not take offense.

    Comment


    • #3
      Did you lose track of your previous thread on this topic?

      As we said in that other thread, there is no Official way to play a super hero / villain in Savage Rifts.
      There are a few suggestions about how to play one, using the rules in the Super Powers Companion (SPC), in that other thread.

      You are correct that the Deluxe edition, core rules, "super powers" arcane background worked similarly to any other spell caster. That is appropriate for characters like The Shadow, or potentially Cyclops, who are basically normal people with one or two cool tricks.
      The new Adventure edition removes the confusion by renaming that AB as "gifted", along with a few other changes. From Adventure onwards the only Arcane Background (Super Powers) is the one in the SPC.
      I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

      Comment


      • Rastildious
        Rastildious commented
        Editing a comment
        Being new to this form I posted the earlier topic not seeing this one until now. I apologize for multiple post but this seems like a better place to ask my question. Wow so that got rid of super powers in the new Adventure edition of savage Worlds.

      • Deskepticon
        Deskepticon commented
        Editing a comment
        Rastildious Not exactly "got rid of"... The AB formerly known as Super Powers has been reworked and renamed Gifted. This was done to prevent confusion with the Arcane Background presented in the Super Powers Companion.

        In the previous edition of the rules, if a character had AB (Super Powers), you needed to do a double-take to find out if it was the core version or companion. Now there's no confusion (and Gifted is just a more fitting name).

    • #4
      On Facebook the devs encouraged players to try out the SPC with the SWADE Rifts rules (or SWD.) I can post the recommended process he gave when I get a chance.

      Comment


      • #5
        Hey guys! Until the SWADE SPC is released, please playtest the following for full-fledged superheroes:

        #1 Choose any standard Race from either Savage Worlds or Savage Rifts.

        #2 Create your superpowers using the Four Color Power Level listed in the SPC.

        #2 Build your hero using the M.A.R.S. rules using this Package:

        SUPER HERO
        -Begin with the "Four Color" level of Power Points from the SPC
        -Make one *less* roll on the MARS Fortune & Glory Table
        -Begin with the Glitter Boy's starting gear

        #4 Wreck EVERYTHING

        Let me know how it goes. Thanks!

        PS: You read that right, no custom races for this one you munchkin murder hobos.
        Sean Owen Roberson
        Line Editor, Rifts for Savage Worlds

        Comment


        • #6
          Originally posted by PEGRoberson View Post
          Hey guys! Until the SWADE SPC is released, please playtest the following for full-fledged superheroes:

          #1 Choose any standard Race from either Savage Worlds or Savage Rifts.

          #2 Create your superpowers using the Four Color Power Level listed in the SPC.

          #2 Build your hero using the M.A.R.S. rules using this Package:

          SUPER HERO
          -Begin with the "Four Color" level of Power Points from the SPC
          -Make one *less* roll on the MARS Fortune & Glory Table
          -Begin with the Glitter Boy's starting gear

          #4 Wreck EVERYTHING

          Let me know how it goes. Thanks!

          PS: You read that right, no custom races for this one you munchkin murder hobos.
          I used something very similar to this in my last campaign and found the PC outclassed just about everyone in the group. And that's after I brought him down in power level once. We wound up agreeing that the character didn't fit into the group and he made a new PC. I think with the new rules we may find it less OP, but basically he had teleport + melee damage bonus, and just destroyed everything. Is there a way to attach PDF's here to share?

          Comment


          • #7
            Originally posted by Gancis View Post

            I used something very similar to this in my last campaign and found the PC outclassed just about everyone in the group. And that's after I brought him down in power level once. We wound up agreeing that the character didn't fit into the group and he made a new PC. I think with the new rules we may find it less OP, but basically he had teleport + melee damage bonus, and just destroyed everything. Is there a way to attach PDF's here to share?
            Yes, there is an "upload attachments" button at the top right of the text field area. That does sound like a character that would be less thematic and more built to game the rules, though the lower power level that is probably present in the rules write-up that I listed should help with that a bit. Please try out the new rules and let me know what you think. Also, I would say make supers characters a bit more accountable than usual when it comes to character background development and theme.
            Sean Owen Roberson
            Line Editor, Rifts for Savage Worlds

            Comment


            • #8
              Originally posted by PEGRoberson View Post
              PS: You read that right, no custom races for this one you munchkin murder hobos.
              I'm just curious why players wouldn't be allowed to build a custom race. The "racial points" would need to come straight from the Power Points, potentially making the build less powerful. I'm unclear on what the concern actually is here.

              Comment


              • Radecliffe
                Radecliffe commented
                Editing a comment
                Perhaps but then how does that even work? Take Growth (always on), extra limbs, super strength, super intelligence, toughness and/or armor (heavy) maybe some mental powers if there's room and just NOT call it a Rahu-Men? Personally I think the issue is that you're looking at that one statement in a vacuum. #2 says pick a standard race i.e. not a custom built race. But hey, I could be wrong.

              • DoctorBoson
                DoctorBoson commented
                Editing a comment
                I agree with Radecliffe, the idea is that the race needs to be one that's available to everyone at the table—so if the GM makes a custom race and says "hey this is part of our Rifts game," or if he converts a race that was in the original Rifts and clears it for the table, then it's a viable option. But the idea is characters can't build their own non-human race and then give Super Powers on top of that.

                Building a new, unique race using Super Powers is a different matter entirely imo.

              • Deskepticon
                Deskepticon commented
                Editing a comment
                Radecliffe I'm not looking at that statement in a vaccuum... I'm unclear on what the intention is, hence the call for clarification. Speculating on the intent is fine, but it doesn't get me any closer to an answer, so no amount of doubling-down is likely to convince me.

                The statement can be taken two or three ways: either it means you can't build a custom race, select it in Step #1, and then stack the Super Powers onto it (which invalidates DoctorBoson 's claim), or it means you can't use the SPC rules to build a custom race wholecloth... or both.

                The core SPC rules have you begin as "human", but add flavor and context with the various powers to design your "race". It literally says that! Is this still valid approach, or does selecting "human" mean you MUST play as a human?

                Again, the intent is unclear since if you choose human in Step #1, nothing in the presented ruleset tells you to modify core SPC by ignoring that stipulation. I haven't made any assumptions here; I'm just asking a question.

            • #9
              I get that you're looking for an official answer. I don't think I'm speculating but as I said I've been wrong before. Perhaps if we were to tag PEGRoberson ?

              Comment


              • Deskepticon
                Deskepticon commented
                Editing a comment
                Thanks!
                Hey, sorry if my previous comment come off confrontational. Certainly wasn't my intent to sound like I was accusing you personally of "doubling-down". That was meant only to be a statement on my position, but it was poorly structured. This message brought to you by my unbridled neurosis.

            • #10
              I would appreciate specific feedback on how Step 1 could be phrased more clearly.

              The mechanical intent is to avoid having a character built with SWADE custom race rules and then applying SPC abilities on top of that. While building a “custom race” is allowed in the Deluxe SPC ignore that section for the purposes of playtesting SWADE Rifts.

              Sean Owen Roberson
              Line Editor, Rifts for Savage Worlds

              Comment


              • Ndreare
                Ndreare commented
                Editing a comment
                SPC page 3 says it as follows, I think it is clear and works well.



                Race
                Humans begin play with a free Edge of their choice, and must meet the requirements of the Edge as normal. Other races—undead, constructs, or even aliens from other worlds—are also possible, but you’ll create those with the appropriate super powers so that you can tailor your race exactly as you see it. Just like humans, custom races get a Free Edge of their choice at the beginning of play and must also meet the requirements of the Edge as normal.
                You might also consider using the racial abilities system found in Savage Worlds or the
                Science Fiction Companion
                if a race is particularly common in your setting.
                Last edited by Ndreare; 05-13-2019, 03:53 PM.

            • #11
              Originally posted by PEGRoberson View Post
              I would appreciate specific feedback on how Step 1 could be phrased more clearly.

              The mechanical intent is to avoid having a character built with SWADE custom race rules and then applying SPC abilities on top of that. While building a “custom race” is allowed in the Deluxe SPC ignore that section for the purposes of playtesting SWADE Rifts.
              Okay, so you're trying to allow folks to mimic the existing TLPG Races, but not building new races-as-such.

              My proposed wording:

              #1 Create your superpowers using the Four Color Power Level listed in the SPC. If you wish, you may select Powers that emulate the abilities of an existing TLPG non-human race, but should not try to make this a custom race to match something from another source. If you take this route, try to select Hindrances that also emulate the race's downsides.

              Comment


              • Deskepticon
                Deskepticon commented
                Editing a comment
                I don't think the intent is to "mimic" a race using Super Powers. You choose a race as normal... the SPC powers become your Framework.

                Custom races are not allowed in any capacity. Not using SWADE race-creation rules, and not built through super powers.

            • #12
              Originally posted by PEGRoberson View Post
              I would appreciate specific feedback on how Step 1 could be phrased more clearly.

              The mechanical intent is to avoid having a character built with SWADE custom race rules and then applying SPC abilities on top of that. While building a “custom race” is allowed in the Deluxe SPC ignore that section for the purposes of playtesting SWADE Rifts.
              Thank you. This answers my question about using Super Powers to build the race.

              As for phrasing, I think incorporating what you just said above would work fine. Namely, specify that the race must be an "official" RIFTS race, and that the "custom race" caveat of the SPC is ignored.

              For playtesting purposes, I understand having this restriction in place, and I agree with it... but I don't expect the rule to be upheld in actual play. So as a friendly warning, you might want to get ahead of that when finalizing the super powers rules.

              Comment


              • PEGRoberson
                PEGRoberson commented
                Editing a comment
                I dont expect people to follow that rule in actual play, either. We already have a new sidebar that custom races are per GM's approval, so that should suffice.

              • Deskepticon
                Deskepticon commented
                Editing a comment
                PEGRoberson A sidebar is precisely the kind of thing I was thinking of when I said "get ahead of" the issue.

                Thank you for your attention and patience. Keep up the great work!

            • #13
              Originally posted by Deskepticon View Post

              Thank you. This answers my question about using Super Powers to build the race.

              As for phrasing, I think incorporating what you just said above would work fine. Namely, specify that the race must be an "official" RIFTS race, and that the "custom race" caveat of the SPC is ignored.

              For playtesting purposes, I understand having this restriction in place, and I agree with it... but I don't expect the rule to be upheld in actual play. So as a friendly warning, you might want to get ahead of that when finalizing the super powers rules.
              I disagree, I very much expect the restriction to be maintained.

              The official published races are already +14 points making humans inefficient across the board. Stacking that on top of SPC options would be against the grain.

              Comment


              • PEGRoberson
                PEGRoberson commented
                Editing a comment
                We already have a new sidebar that custom races are per GM's approval, so that should suffice to support any future restrictions if the IF ever becomes official.

              • Deskepticon
                Deskepticon commented
                Editing a comment
                Ndreare Maybe we're talking past each other, or maybe I'm just missing something crucial here.

                As long as the custom race (built with the core guidelines) is balanced with all the other races, there is no inherent imbalance by stacking Super Powers onto it. The issue, therefore, isn't with the Super Powers Iconic Framework but with having imbalaced races.

                Half of the published races in TLPG come out to +4, some are +2 or +3, and the altara are numerically +0 (though imperfectly they are probably +2). I don't see any of the races coming near +14 (unless that was a typo and you meant +4). Still, we're talking about just a two-point difference after the SPC framework is applied. That's well within the fluctuation range of any existing IFs.

                The point is, as long as a custom race is kept to +4 or lower, there shouldn't be any problem using the Super Power framework with it.

              • Ndreare
                Ndreare commented
                Editing a comment
                I am saying the core races are all blatantly over powered to humans. They each have hokey limitations that don't really limit them.

                The result is stuff like Start with Agility, Strength and Vigor d6, Radar, Alertness and Attractive. All stuff that comes up every adventure (usually multiple times) [12 points of awesome]

                But their limitations are things that rarely come up like Bad Reputation (okay, do the face does the chatting), hunted by splugorth (really, how often does that come up in adventures?), Storm Fouled Radar?

                I would say my experience at a dozen tables has been these limitations come up maybe once in a half dozen adventures. All the non humans are like this, with massive bonuses that go into your build and come up in every adventure. But limitations that never come up (restricted path), only come up in duplication to their Iconic Framework (hunted by CS, or other enemy factions) or are hyper situational.

                In normal Savage Worlds Hindrances where about twice the hit of an advantage because they did not come up as often. But on the race's they are simply free points.

            • #14
              Originally posted by PEGRoberson View Post
              Hey guys! Until the SWADE SPC is released, please playtest the following for full-fledged superheroes:

              #1 Choose any standard Race from either Savage Worlds or Savage Rifts.

              #2 Create your superpowers using the Four Color Power Level listed in the SPC.

              #2 Build your hero using the M.A.R.S. rules using this Package:

              SUPER HERO
              -Begin with the "Four Color" level of Power Points from the SPC
              -Make one *less* roll on the MARS Fortune & Glory Table
              -Begin with the Glitter Boy's starting gear

              #4 Wreck EVERYTHING

              Let me know how it goes. Thanks!

              PS: You read that right, no custom races for this one you munchkin murder hobos.

              I am confused... There are two #2s... is one supposed to be #3 or is this an either or situation?

              Comment


              • PEGRoberson
                PEGRoberson commented
                Editing a comment
                Haha, it was supposed to be #3, it was a copy paste error. I also skipped straight to #4.

            • #15
              Interesting... Just for reference, for Savage Worlds Deluxe RIFTS, I ended up inventing something similar:
              #2 Create your superpowers with 30 power points and a Power Limit of 12. Drawbacks do not decrease the cost of a power for the purposes of Power Limit. You can trade a skill point or ability point away for 5 or 10 Discount Power Points, respectively; Discount Power Points can only be spent on the following: Armor, Attack (Ranged or Melee), Super Attribute (Strength, no modifiers), and the Size racial ability. Your starting Size is tentatively limited to 6. If you're bigger than Size 2 or so you should have a way to change size, lest you cause Doorway Paralysis.

              #3 You get two Hero's Journey rolls.

              I can report that the magical girl created using these rules worked mostly okay, although being magically as tough as a power armor but unable to hurt heavy mega-damage targets felt odd at times -- she ended up manning the operator's vehicles mounted laser cannon whenever it was time to do single-target damage.

              PEGRoberson , could we get an updated version of this once the final RIFTS SWADE rules come out, to deal with the adjusted base numbers of Hero's Journey and Fortune & Glory rolls at least? I'm not sure what the intent of 'one less roll' is when MARS classes only get one...
              Last edited by Scottbert; 07-04-2019, 04:15 AM.

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