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Holding actions and responding to an enemy

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  • Holding actions and responding to an enemy

    I was hoping to get some feedback from other GMs on how you handle a couple of situations in battle dealing with cover.

    For example, in a battle where an enemy might be fighting smart, so he is using a move, shoot, move action to move in and out of cover to attack, or to leapfrog between cover.

    The obvious solution for a player is to hold their action and then interrupt to make their attack when the enemy makes his move to attack.

    What I'm not so clear on, and it has caused some discussions around our table is, at what point is the Player interrupting?

    - The beginning of the enemy action when they declare? (But the enemy is still out of sight at this point and not a target)
    - As they move out into the open before their shot? (In which case, if they are moving through things that might provide cover do we just assume that the player interrupts at the most advantageous point to shoot?)
    - Or does the player interrupt at any damned point they like, possibly even after the enemy shot and as they move back to cover, possibly reducing the range if they are leapfrogging to a new piece of cover?



    And in a related topic, if a combatant is completely out of sight behind a wall or such, one of our players has argued, how would they even know that their opponent is acting so they can interrupt them. Would they have to keep peeking around the cover to monitor their opponent, thus not be completely hidden, just in a position with lots of cover, or do we assume that the little bit peeking does not compromise their complete cover? I know it adds complexity and possibly slows things down, but I'm inclined to go with he first option here.

    And finally I had a player suggest to me the other day that maybe if someone is popping in and out of complete cover (LOS) to make their attacks, then perhaps an opponent shouldn't be able to make an aimed shot at them, as they aren't getting a whole round to draw a bead on them and shoot.
    To me this doesn't seem in the spirit of the rule, and never having tried to snipe someone, I don't know how much time you might actually need. But I thought I would ask peoples opinions just to make sure I have thought this through properly.


    Thanks for your feedback folks.

    Maelgwyn

  • #2
    Originally posted by Maelgwyn View Post
    What I'm not so clear on, and it has caused some discussions around our table is, at what point is the Player interrupting?
    ...
    - Or does the player interrupt at any damned point they like, possibly even after the enemy shot and as they move back to cover, possibly reducing the range if they are leapfrogging to a new piece of cover?
    The player is attempting to interrupt whenever they want. That's the point of interrupting, if you're successful then you can do so after any perceptible point in the other character's turn. (Perceptible is important when a player tries to interrupt a foe pulling a trigger or similar action - that's not usually perceptible.)

    In this case, the player can interrupt a) after the foe leaves cover, b) after the foe starts shooting, c) after the foe finishing shooting, or d) as the foe is heading into cover.
    All of those are viable choices.

    Originally posted by Maelgwyn View Post
    And in a related topic, if a combatant is completely out of sight behind a wall or such, one of our players has argued, how would they even know that their opponent is acting so they can interrupt them.
    Good question. I'd usually respond with, "Notice check. Sound, smell, or maybe a stray reflection off that shiny thing over there." The trapping is very situational but the rules are going to be Notice check.
    Aside: Refresh yourself on the Firing Blind rules. Useful stuff.

    Originally posted by Maelgwyn View Post
    And finally I had a player suggest to me the other day that maybe if someone is popping in and out of complete cover (LOS) to make their attacks, then perhaps an opponent shouldn't be able to make an aimed shot at them, as they aren't getting a whole round to draw a bead on them and shoot.
    To me this doesn't seem in the spirit of the rule, and never having tried to snipe someone, I don't know how much time you might actually need. But I thought I would ask peoples opinions just to make sure I have thought this through properly.
    A shooter can aim at the general location a target is expected to be and fire when it appears.

    I hope you find the above post useful. And not insulting, because I was trying to be helpful, not insulting; being a pedantic jerk, that isn't always clear.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Maelgwyn View Post
      - Or does the player interrupt at any damned point they like, possibly even after the enemy shot and as they move back to cover, possibly reducing the range if they are leapfrogging to a new piece of cover?
      This one. Basically, as I am describing the targets action if the player says something along the line of "Wait, I want to act now" this triggers the Agility check. For example:
      Me - The bandit moves from here to here and...
      Player - I shoot while he is moving.
      Me - Ok, roll your Agility
      (Pass) Me - Nice, take your shot, he has no cover.
      (Fail) Me - Sorry he gets around the corner before you get your shot off. But you can act now if you want.
      I have way too much time but do not always edit myself properly. Please do not take offense.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Erolat View Post

        This one. Basically, as I am describing the targets action if the player says something along the line of "Wait, I want to act now" this triggers the Agility check. For example:
        Me - The bandit moves from here to here and...
        Player - I shoot while he is moving.
        Me - Ok, roll your Agility
        (Pass) Me - Nice, take your shot, he has no cover.
        (Fail) Me - Sorry he gets around the corner before you get your shot off. But you can act now if you want.
        This is exactly how we do it, as we understand the rules for this. Thank you Erolat for the simple and concise example.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Erolat View Post

          This one. Basically, as I am describing the targets action if the player says something along the line of "Wait, I want to act now" this triggers the Agility check. For example:
          Me - The bandit moves from here to here and...
          Player - I shoot while he is moving.
          Me - Ok, roll your Agility
          (Pass) Me - Nice, take your shot, he has no cover.
          (Fail) Me - Sorry he gets around the corner before you get your shot off. But you can act now if you want.
          Thanks for that run down Erolat. I'm curious. If your players don't succeed in their agility check and the opponent ducks back into cover for example, would you allow your player to go back into holding their action, or do you make them take some action as they are already comitted?

          Comment


          • jrpaikuli
            jrpaikuli commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm not Erolat, but I'll answer for our table. They have to do something or surrender their action, as they've already committed.

          • dentris
            dentris commented
            Editing a comment
            The only moment you can go on hold is at the very beginning of your turn. At the moment you make your Agility roll, it is no longer it, so you have to act or lose your turn.

          • ogbendog
            ogbendog commented
            Editing a comment
            Right, this models them shooting just after the guy is out of LOS.

        • #6
          Generally, I narrate it something like "You see the bandit darting from cover and decide to take your shot. Unfortunately she was moving a bit faster than you thought and pulled the trigger just after she back to cover." Not always but often I will allow the shot to take place before the 'bandit' finishes their action(s), if they are doing something from behind the new cover.. This still allows the player a chance at stopping them but generally no better than if they had taken the shot before the target moved. If they decide not to take the shot they may take their action after the target is completed but before the next card activates. If they pass on that option then they wait for the next deal.

          Just to balance all this flexibility the enemy gets the options.

          Side Note: I do allow an aimed shot if the character spent their last card aiming at the cover the target was behind AND they win the Agility check. If they fail the check things proceed as above.
          Last edited by Erolat; 06-06-2018, 06:17 PM.
          I have way too much time but do not always edit myself properly. Please do not take offense.

          Comment

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