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Are the new APG Summon powers really FFF?

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  • Are the new APG Summon powers really FFF?

    I'm sure many fans are happy to see more Pathfinder spells in their PFSW, but I feel these new powers (Summon Monster, Summon Nature's Ally, Planar Ally) miss the entire point of the Savage Worlds power system.

    The designers did already the hard work of comperssing HUNDREDS of PF spells into a spot-on list of 50-ish powers. These powers can mimic most PF spell just by picking the right trapping and modifiers.

    In this regard, Summon Ally is a great power, as it is a stand-in to almost every summoning spell in Pathfinder, including Invisible Servant, Summon Monster, Shadow Conjuration and many more. Shadowdancers use this power to summon shadowy creatures, Druids have it one their list to summon beastlike spirits, and Abyssal Sorcerers use it to call fearsome demons. The basic profiles are the same, but the trapping does the trick.

    Now, while the core power could use a little upgrade, It allows for great versatility with almost no book keeping – which is NOT the case for most summon spells in Pathfinder. These spells require the player to leaf through the bestiary non-stop and rememeber the abilities of every summonable creature. These spells are anything but FFF.

    To me, the new Summon powers in the Savage APG feel less like Savage Worlds powers and more like Pathfinder Spells. Instead of adding options and suggested trappings to an already existing power, the new book adds no less than 3 full tables of summonable creatures. This also misses the already existing interactions Summon Ally has in the core book, like with the abyssal sorcerer ability.

    I do not thing there's a need for new power just for Acid Arrow (we have Bolt for that) and on the same coin, I don't think we need these three new powers.


    Your thoughts?

  • #2
    The Devs' own words on converting PF spells to SW powera:
    https://paizo.com/community/blog/v57...-Savage-Powers

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    • #3
      If anything, I would just bring the extra tables into the information for Summon Ally. You can either summon a generic form or summon something specific. All of the meta information is the same, it's just the text that differs.

      It may also be a reflection of your caster's "strength" in that the more advances they've taken, the more things they can summon (if they choose to).
      That's the main thing I think. Not all caster will want to summon extraplanar beings or monsters. They are there if they wish to summon those types.
      This allows the player to control the complexity of the Summon <Thing> power instead of tossing everything at them at once.

      These powers are less generic than others. I could also see these as being Power Edges to expand the Summon Ally power however that would take more advances to acquire the full list.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Jiggadias View Post
        If anything, I would just bring the extra tables into the information for Summon Ally. You can either summon a generic form or summon something specific. All of the meta information is the same, it's just the text that differs.
        This may work as an alternate list, meaning a character can summon lemurs INSTEAD of being able to summon bodyguards. Otherwise, I'm afraid the new powers are much more powerful just by the sheer number of options available to answer any given situation.
        This is just the tip of the iceberg, of course. As written previously, these new powers FEEL like they should have been trappings for the already existing Summon Ally.

        Originally posted by Jiggadias View Post
        It may also be a reflection of your caster's "strength" in that the more advances they've taken, the more things they can summon (if they choose to).
        Well, as written right now, the new options don't require any edges.

        Originally posted by Jiggadias View Post
        Not all caster will want to summon extraplanar beings or monsters.
        Right, they may want to summon wood creatures, or shadow servents. But accourding to the Core Book, if a character wanted to summon extraplanar demons, that's a Summon Ally trapping (again, see the Abyssal Sorcerer ability).

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        • #5
          Also, reading the descriptions, the summoned entities perform differently. Monsters will have personality and creativity (you don't have to explicitly give the command to the very last detail), but Planar creatures will only perform an agreed upon task.

          Summon Ally:
          The ally acts on its creator’s Action Card
          and follows her commands to the best of its
          ability. It has no personality, creativity, or
          emotions.​
          Summon Monster:
          Conjuring a mindless ally or simple beast is
          one thing. But summoning a monster is a true
          display of a sorcerer’s power!
          Summoned monsters are loyal to the caster,
          understand simple commands, and act on the
          caster’s Action Card.​
          Summon Planar Ally:
          The summoned outsider performs a task
          for the spellcaster. At the end of its task, or
          when the duration bargained for expires,
          the creature returns to its home plane (after
          reporting back to you, if appropriate and
          possible).​

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          • #6
            I didn’t saw it yet, but I saw it on the Fantasy for SWADE and I think that they are pretty much the same. I have to agree with you. It isn’t FFF and it kinda make the Summon Ally obsolete. And since the monster doesn’t have a “power measure” like CR on Pathfinder you can’t use new creatures from new books with this new powers.

            But, in the other hand it’s not that different than have an ally by savage worlds rule. As a player, if I get this power I would have all stats at hand (as I did with my Druid in old D&D 3.x days), as a GM I would ask the same: “you want this power? Fine, have the stat blocks at hand before you cast it”

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