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Shape Change power and Dragons

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    Ixat
    Registered Member

  • Ixat
    commented on 's reply
    I agree here. I think removing the example and adding additional types as an Epic modifier makes sense. I was building a Draconic Bloodline Sorcerer yesterday and wondered this morning why I had missed that Shape Change would let him get this powerful. Makes sense that in a prior version this was possible but it's been tightened up.
  • Natural Three
    Registered Member

  • Natural Three
    replied
    Removing Dragons from the list of forms available via Shape Change makes sense to me. There was always a strange discrepancy between Shape Change and Dragon Disciple, since the regular Shape Change power provided far better dragon shapes (in addition to all its other benefits), despite the Dragon Disciple's Dragon Form being the pinnacle of an entire series of prestige edges.

    Perhaps more high-level prestige edges for Dragon Disciple could be added in the future, allowing for larger dragon shapes and longer durations?

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  • Ndreare
    Registered Member

  • Ndreare
    replied
    I love that you left the Elemental option. It inspired me to make a character who turns into elementals as his "thing".

    Leave a comment:

  • Samurai007
    Registered Member

  • Samurai007
    commented on 's reply
    Even without dragons, many shapes are possible, so I included a few more guidelines in my house rules, (including what kinds of poisons you can mimic at each level and how much natural armor and natural weapons you can create). It doesn't stop you from taking the appearance of a creature beyond your abilities, but the strength of the armor, weapons, and any poisons created by the power will be limited, despite the appearance.
  • BigMike
    Registered Member

  • BigMike
    replied
    Dragon was removed from the core shape change power (but we did miss the example of dragon in the description )

    This doesn't mean there won't be another power later that includes creature Types that aren't listed in the shape change power.

    Leave a comment:

  • Sarigar
    Registered Member

  • Sarigar
    replied
    Originally posted by Dogfisc View Post

    I did find that somewhat amusing. And while removing Dragon isn’t a bad idea, I think it would be worth allowing with an Epic power modifier.
    I plan to make it an epic modifier for my own setting, and probably magical beasts as well. I like the players to have a diverse toolkit to play with, and really, this is exactly the kind of thing Epic Modifiers are meant for!

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  • Dogfisc
    Registered Member

  • Dogfisc
    replied
    Originally posted by Sarigar View Post

    Even though the next column in the power description gives an example of a player becoming a copper dragon, which was not part of the previous version's description (it referred to just "a dragon"). The devs might need to tidy that up a bit for clarity...
    I did find that somewhat amusing. And while removing Dragon isn’t a bad idea, I think it would be worth allowing with an Epic power modifier.

    Leave a comment:

  • Sarigar
    Registered Member

  • Sarigar
    commented on 's reply
    Right, I wasn't disputing that, I was just pointing out that even though they removed Dragon as a type, they also changed the text to refer to a different type of dragon. I meant the devs needed to clarify, not you.
  • redcap57
    Registered Member

  • redcap57
    replied
    Originally posted by Sarigar View Post

    Even though the next column in the power description gives an example of a player becoming a copper dragon, which was not part of the previous version's description (it referred to just "a dragon"). Might need to tidy that up a bit for clarity...
    Uh, I DID say the latest version which lists the available types as "Animal, Elemental, Humanoid, Plants." Dragons are none of those, according to the Bestiary. The designers may need to clarify that further or just cut out the example, but that solution seems a bit ... draconian ...
    redcap57
    Registered Member
    Last edited by redcap57; 10-19-2021, 02:23 AM.

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  • Sarigar
    Registered Member

  • Sarigar
    replied
    Originally posted by redcap57 View Post
    According to the latest version (dropped today), Shape Change no longer lists Dragons as an available type of creature for that power.
    Even though the next column in the power description gives an example of a player becoming a copper dragon, which was not part of the previous version's description (it referred to just "a dragon"). The devs might need to tidy that up a bit for clarity...
    Sarigar
    Registered Member
    Last edited by Sarigar; 10-19-2021, 02:23 AM.

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  • redcap57
    Registered Member

  • redcap57
    replied
    According to the latest version (dropped today), Shape Change no longer lists Dragons as an available type of creature for that power.

    Leave a comment:

  • FoolishFrost
    Registered Member

  • FoolishFrost
    replied
    Shapechange, in any game, has always been one of the most problematic powers in the list, right along side of mind reading, flight, and wishes.

    Leave a comment:

  • Jason_Sunday
    Registered Member

  • Jason_Sunday
    commented on 's reply
    Donald Schepis
    Registered Member
    Donald Schepis I wasn't trying to imply anything about the motivations of the dev team. I apologies if it came across that way. I didn't understand why this thread wasn't commented on and other had. The emoji I used is labeled "Confused" and I thought that would convey my tone more than it apparently did. Thank you for responding.
    Jason_Sunday
    Registered Member
    Last edited by Jason_Sunday; 10-04-2021, 09:54 PM. Reason: added user tag
  • Deskepticon
    Registered Member

  • Deskepticon
    commented on 's reply
    Samurai007
    Registered Member
    Samurai007 I don't know what page it appears in PFSW, but Familiarization is on page 36 of the Adventure Edition rulebook.

    When a character is "out of his element", he might receive between a -2 to -4 penalty on certain tasks. So let's say they shape change into a dragon. Well, that's a strange new body, with all different center of balance and movement. Very easy for the GM to say the character is at -2 to all actions (-4 while flying) for the duration/encounter. By the third time or so the character shifts into a dragon, the penalties might drop to -0/-2, respectively (flying with wings is still odd for a human). After another few shifts, the character has "familiarized" themselves with being a dragon and no longer receive any penalties.
  • Zero1323
    Registered Member

  • Zero1323
    replied
    I think the power is mostly fine as is.

    Leave a comment:

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