Have a player who is playing a Cleric of the Nature Domain at Novice level. He uses Shape Change to turn into a Wyrmling Bronze Dragon. In this form he is able to use his breath weapon every round until the duration ends. The player typically uses the option to extend his duration to minutes instead of rounds. This gives him effectively the Burst power at only the cost of the Shape Change power until it's duration ends. This feels overpowered. I am I missing something?
Shape Change power and Dragons
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How about mebbe adding on a Power "tax" in the form of an extra PP cost per special ability. Like normal speed Flight or Swimming or Water Breathing would be free, but Fast Pace (more than 10") or an Innate Power would cost an extra PP. So you could easily Shape Change to a "Normal" animal, but an "Exotic" one would cost more. Wanna Fly Fast AND have a Breath Weapon? Upfront cost is 2 more PP. -
Keep in mind that using a Breath Weapon takes the entire turn, so no multi-actions, and more importantly that unlike Burst, Breath Weapons can be Evaded. If the player keeps doing this and it becomes a problem, opponents with higher agility, AP weapons, or the occasional Dispel (especially if the dragon is flying at the time) could force him to use some other tactics. Just don’t overdo it and make him feel specifically targeted or like you’re trying to negate his whole character concept.👍 2Comment
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I think the OP part is being able to cast the Burst power (albeit a version that can be Evaded) basically for FREE every single round. The additional PP cost (+1 PP) to extend the Duration to 5 minutes instead of just 5 turns seems kinda miniscule by comparison. Why would most players NOT want to be a flying gun platform for every combat?Comment
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Because being the "flying gun platform" would make you the primary target nearly every single time. It's like calling in an airstrike to take out a tank or gunner's nest before charging the enemy line. The biggest threat receives priority, with an equal measure of force.
It's got nothing to do with picking on the player or trying negating their character concept, it's just the way any enemy would logically and realistically respond.
There's a reason shape change allows multiple forms by default. It's meant to be adaptive, not exploitive.
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Because being the "flying gun platform" would make you the primary target nearly every single time. It's like calling in an airstrike to take out a tank or gunner's nest before charging the enemy line. The biggest threat receives priority, with an equal measure of force.
Well it sure sounds like you agree with it being OP
It's got nothing to do with picking on the player or trying negating their character concept, it's just the way any enemy would logically and realistically respond.
Ya, the "respond" part might be a big part of the problem. A Wyrmling Bronze Dragon has a Flying Pace of 18. 18! That easily allows for movement out of and back into full cover whilst dispensing a great deal of damage. 2d6 Area of Effect damage from a teeny little wyrmling seems kind of ... excessive.
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Ya, the "respond" part might be a big part of the problem. A Wyrmling Bronze Dragon has a Flying Pace of 18. 18! That easily allows for movement out of and back into full cover whilst dispensing a great deal of damage. 2d6 Area of Effect damage from a teeny little wyrmling seems kind of ... excessive.Comment
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Size was never a useful metric for "how dangerous/useful is the form in combat" and wasn't ever really intended to be such. Small forms with dangerous abilities were inevitably going to show up and make the shape change power quite powerful. The only solution I can think of is either to strictly limit what you can turn into (adult versions of creatures so you can't do a wyrmling dragon? No variant creatures? Animals only?) or build some kind of point system for forms like you see in the Super Powers Companion or Cyril Rosenaux's shapeshifting book on SWAG.Comment
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The language in Core and Bestiary is consistent:
”Unless otherwise noted, breath attacks…take the creature’s entire turn— they can’t perform Multi-Actions in the same round they make a breath attack.”
I read that to mean that the creature can still move, take free actions, etc…just no other actions.
Man, Dragon Disciple is looking worse and worse vs just taking Burst, Fly, and Shapechange.👍 2Comment
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Not at all. I'm saying a powerful ability requires a powerful response. If the player's thing is turning into dragon every combat, the GM needs to increase the threat level of the enemies (who are more likely to target the friggin dragon burninating everything).
Ya, the "respond" part might be a big part of the problem. A Wyrmling Bronze Dragon has a Flying Pace of 18. 18! That easily allows for movement out of and back into full cover whilst dispensing a great deal of damage. 2d6 Area of Effect damage from a teeny little wyrmling seems kind of ... excessive.
But I don't see a 2d6 Cone as "excessive." The GM just needs to play the foes smarter; taking Cover or dropping Prone; casting environmental protection against the Breath Attack type; jumping in a lake; etc. Besides, Breath Attacks always allow an Evasion roll on top of things.Comment
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keep in mind that dispel is a novice power, and the enemies aren't stupid. word of that is going to get around pretty quickly. enemies are going to use ambushes, shapeshifters of their own, environmental protection, etc. if it were me, i would set up a two stage ambush, where just as the party was starting to rest from the first one, the next one would start, until the enemies ran out of gold and mercenaries. hard to shapeshift without power points.
that said, there is no reason you couldn't rank-gate the types of forms, or even limit them to specific types of forms entirely.
i have a druid playing in my game right now that just hit seasoned, and after looking at wildshape, i plan to limit it to beast/plant at seasoned, add elemental at heroic, and dragon at legendary.Comment
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I always found it funny how many players forget to use cover and forget that they can go on hold. It seems a lot of the time people think going first is always best. But sometimes going on hold is the way to go.👍 1Comment
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I’m also a big fan of the Calculating Edge, to turn a low Action Card into an advantage.👍 2Comment
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