Favored Powers

[Tumola]

A lot of spell casters have access to the Favored Powers Edge. I was just wondering what the background is? Is it a Pathfinder thing that Sorcerers are good at bolt, deflection, dispel? Or does that reflect any other Pathfinder mechanic?

Because I find these Edges unnecessarily restricive. If the character does not have all of the powers affected by it, the Edge hardly seems worth it.

[Samurai007]

Tumola, there is not really a "favored powers/spells" feature in Pathfinder. I think they are trying to give some of the favored powers for that class a bit of a buff, and to encourage players to choose them.

There is a "Combat Casting" feat that helps you ignore distractions and avoid opportunity attacks. If that is the effect they are going for, I think a better way to do it would be to say "Once per turn, you may ignore 1 point worth of penalties to your spellcasting with any powers you know/have prepared." (I cut the 2 points down to just 1 point, but opened it to any/all the powers/spells they can cast. A 2nd edge could improve that to negating 2 points of penalties with any/all powers.)

If they want to encourage players to choose certain powers for a certain class, they could give it to them for free (like Clerics getting Healing) or at a discount.

[Deskepticon]

There is a "Combat Casting" feat that helps you ignore distractions and avoid opportunity attacks. If that is the effect they are going for, I think a better way to do it would be to say "Once per turn, you may ignore 1 point worth of penalties to your spellcasting with any powers you know/have prepared."

The Combat Casting feat exists because the system has massive drawbacks for casting from a threatened square. The closest Savage Worlds gets to that is saying ranged attacks (including spells) while adjacent must beat the target's Parry instead of a flat 4.

Assuming Combat Casting was the inspiration for the Edge, a closer analog would be to keep the casting TN at 4 while adjacent to the target.

[Tavis]

There's also the case where if you are in melee with someone and make a ranged attack at someone that you are NOT in melee with, you become Vulnerable.

[Deskepticon]

Tavis Good catch.

[Donald Schepis]

If the character does not have all of the powers affected by it, the Edge hardly seems worth it.

It's silly to take Sweep if you don't use the appropriate weapon type. Does that mean Sweep isn't an Edge worth including?

If we let you choose your Favored Powers, then we have to make it much weaker. As it stands, Favored Powers support the AB's default role in a party, which is enforced by their spell list in Pathfinder.

[Tumola]

Understood. Personally, I'd rather choose one or two spells instead of getting a list of three fixed spells. But I appreciate the design choice.

[Samurai007]

I agree with Tumola, not only might the caster not actually have the selected powers, they might rarely cast them. For the Wizard, all of the "favored powers" are Abjurations spells, but what if the Wizard is a specialist and chose Abjuration as one of his opposition schools? "Then maybe he shouldn't take the Favored Powers edge", or you might say "Then the edge cancels out the penalty for the opposition school for those 3 powers".

I think I'd rather let the player choose 3 of the spells he knows to be "Favored", and each time they gain a level, I'd let them decide if they want to change them (maybe they noticed they are not using 1 of them very much, or maybe they just bought the New Powers edge and want to make one of those favored...)

If that means you have to reduce the benefit to only ignoring 1 point of penalty instead of 2, I think that is still better than many casters not being able to use the edge much, if at all. And giving them choices makes it truly their 3 "Favored Powers".

[nikutoku]

I think that if the edge doesn't fit the play style of your character, don't take it. Not all edges have to be tailored to every character. I don't think they necessarily want all wizards to take that edge. Just because it is a "class edge" doesn't mean a character without it ceases to be that class.

[Tumola]

I think that if the edge doesn't fit the play style of your character, don't take it.

Generally I agree with that. If an Edge does not fit your play style, don't take it. There are a great number of Edges in the game, and most of them won't fit your play style. That's OK. But Class Edges are something special, and I think if you play a certain class, you should generally be excited to unlock a new Class Edge. Of course that does not mean that every player will do that, but most.

As an additional thought: Donald compared this Edge to Sweep. But I don't think this is a fair comparison. Favored Powers has some very specific requirements, which I feel are too restrictive. I would actually compare Favored Powers with a Sweep Edge that says it only works with two-handed axes. That would be about the same specificity. And in that case you would ask "why only axes and not swords?"

[Samurai007]

I agree with your comments, Tumola. I feel class edges, in order to be usable by the largest number of players, need to be as versatile and customizable as possible, especially since each class only gets 3 of them, plus the base class edge. The class edges should be able to fit "most" characters of that class. If each class had a dozen or more class edge to choose from, then one or two being more niche and specific would be fine.

You might be saying that all the non-class-specific edges are there too, and you'd be right, but then that's where the most niche edges should be found, not the class edges. The class edges are one of the shiny new thing in Pathfinder for Savage Worlds that many players will want to try out, so IMO they should be highly usable by most players of the game.

[nikutoku]

Generally I agree with that. If an Edge does not fit your play style, don't take it. There are a great number of Edges in the game, and most of them won't fit your play style. That's OK. But Class Edges are something special, and I think if you play a certain class, you should generally be excited to unlock a new Class Edge. Of course that does not mean that every player will do that, but most.

As an additional thought: Donald compared this Edge to Sweep. But I don't think this is a fair comparison. Favored Powers has some very specific requirements, which I feel are too restrictive. I would actually compare Favored Powers with a Sweep Edge that says it only works with two-handed axes. That would be about the same specificity. And in that case you would ask "why only axes and not swords?"

Respectfully, I disagree. The model you seem to be advocating for encourages people to play cookie cutter characters. If all Bards are expected to have Countersong, why even have it be a choice? Why not just make it a baked in ability that you only get access to at Veteran? Instead, they make it an Edge to encourage variety.

[Tumola]

The model you seem to be advocating for encourages people to play cookie cutter characters.

I don't think it is a "cookie cutter" character if you have 3 out of 15 Advances locked in. Obviously that is not for everyone, and you are of course free not to choose certain Edges, which is what I said. Not all Bards will have Countersong, but Countersong undoubtedly a powerful ability that is generally worth getting. Favored Powers not so much if you are not highly specialized.

[chibikami]

perhaps Favored Powers could be expanded based on your chosen wizard school? The spells listed in the edge all fall into the Abjuration school for instance, but an Evocation wizard could have Bolt, Stun, and Light/Darkness

[DPSEve]

I'm also interested in Favored Powers being dependent on chosen spell school. The fact that Abjuration Wizards specifically receive a boost feels wrong to me. Having a single set for Sorcerers or Clerics seems fine, but because wizards specifically have this school based mechanic, the chosen favored power list will always be in favored of some specialists over others.

The problem I see with this approach is universalists. You could say, "Pick three powers each from different schools to be your favored powers," but that might be too annoying.

[Samurai007]

I would just say "Pick 3 powers you are able to cast to be your Favored Powers. You may change your selections each time you gain a level if you wish."

This guarantees the powers are ones you know and can use (they are YOUR Favorite Powers, not just the typical ones for your class), and the ability to change at level ups means that if you gain more powers you can trade out your least often used Favorites if you want.

[BigMike]

Hey guys,

I just wanted to add something to the discussion.

While we have said Favored Power (Class Edge Name) that does not mean there will not be more versions of this edge in other books that these classes can take instead. I would love us to have a great variety, including some that are more focused on schools of magic.

This is one of the Edges that has seen the most internal discussion and adjustment over time because of the way it works, how it feels, and the need to balance it.

I know we all have house rules and if you house rule this, just keep in mind that balancing is a part of why some power combinations were picked.

Thanks and I hope you all have fun gaming.

-Mike

[Tumola]

Thanks for the input. Personally, I prefer the Deadlands variant of this Edge where you pick just one power.