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Taking a Second Class at Novice

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  • Taking a Second Class at Novice

    Reading the wording under Class edges if I understand correctly I can start out with 2 classes. For example I want to be a Bard and a Sorcerer so I take one for free, and use Hindrance points on the other.

    But as I read, while the syntax says this is possible, I get the impression the intent is I must be seasoned to take the second class.

    How are most of you guys reading this? Am I able to able to start with both Bard and Sorcerer or do I need to pick one to start with and not be able to get Bard until I am Seasoned?

  • #2
    It reads to me that you can take an "additional" core Class Edge each rank. So each rank you can take a maximum of two Class/Prestige Edges. This means you can start out with two, provided you have two Edges.


    • #3
      I think the word "additional" means "in addition to the free class edge at character creation". So each rank you can only pick 1 class / prestige edge. The question now becomes: Does the free class edge count as "taken at novice rank", thus blocking you from taking another class edge on novice rank? I feel like the intend is to allow only 1 class edge at novice (your free one), because they are pretty strong and having 2 at novice feels over the top in my book. The thing is: Other similar worded options (like using advances to raise attributes) are similar worded but DO allow raising the attribute at novice beyond character creation (mostly because character creation itself isn't an advance I guess). Maybe the intend should be stated explicitly.


      • #4
        Clarification on this would be good. My interpretation was that you could only have one Class Edge per rank.Per the 1.1 rulebook, page 91 of the PDF, "Class Edges are also limited to one per Rank." The idea is that advancement can happen quickly, but Class Edges are supposed to take years to acquire, so they need a strong story reason to exist.


        • #5
          The more I read that section, the less sure I am of their intention. It *reads* like you could either multiclass at character creation *or* even as your first advance, but I don’t think that’s what was meant.


          • #6
            I agree the wording isn't totally clear, but I'm just about positive that the intent is that you get your starting "Core" (meaning first in the chain) class edge at creation, and then you can't get another "Core" Class or Prestige Edge until you are Seasoned. Basically, I think the intent is that you can "start" a new class/prestige class once per rank with creation counting as novice.

            eXaminator I don't remember where the reference is located, exactly, but somewhere it has been pointed out that upping your attributes at creation is just setting your attributes. It is NOT the same as taking an attribute increase as an advance, hence why you can still bump an attribute with a Novice advance. Edges, OTOH, just adhere to the rank requirement; if you can take one core class edge per rank, then it's not specifically referring to advances and means that between creation and advances, you can still only get 1.

            So if I understand their intent correctly, a Heroic character could have at most (4) core Class/Prestige edges.


            • #7
              "Rank" refers to Novice, Seasoned, etc. So your first Class Edge you take, presumably at CharGen, is your Class Edge for the Novice Rank, then again at Seasoned you can take either a Class Edge from your current Class, another Class's starting Class Edge to multi-class, or a Prestige Edge. Then you make a choice again at Veteran, Heroic, and Legendary.

              In totality you'll have a total of 4 Class/ Multi-class/Prestige Edges before hitting Legendary, then 1 for hitting Legendary and another for every 4 beyond that. So a "Lv20" character would have 6 total.


              • 3DJutsu
                3DJutsu commented
                Editing a comment
                There are charts to show what Rank you are relative to your Advances [pg54 of SWADE and pg16 of SWPF].

                As for upping your Attributes during CharGen that's different if you're buying them with Perk Points. The Attribute increase restriction only relates to Advances specifically. [pg54 of SWADE and pg93 of SWPF]

              • mriddle
                mriddle commented
                Editing a comment
                Ah.. thanks.. But I have been playing the Power Points Edge wrong.. (I allowed it during generation and as one of the first three).

              • ellipses
                ellipses commented
                Editing a comment
                “Characters in Savage Pathfinder can take an **additional** core Class Edge or new core Prestige Edge, but only once each Rank.“ pg 43

                It’s the “additional” that’s causing the confusion, myself included. “Additional” makes it sound like you can take a Class edge on top of your free Class edge, but only once per rank (which would include character creation).

                If the intention is that you can only take one class edge per rank (as I suspect that it is), that should be clearly stated, similar to how the Power Points edge explicitly states that it can only be taken once per rank.

                ETA: also, there seems to be a distinction between Class edges and “Advanced” edges, which RAW doesn’t seem to have any once per rank restrictions. So, RAW, there’s no reason why you couldn’t wait til Heroic and then unlock all your Advanced edges at each advance.
                Last edited by ellipses; 04-03-2021, 04:55 PM.

            • #8
              The core crux of the issue is we don't have a term for Edges that are basically an Edge tree. It's easier to conceptualize visually:

              Fighter: Fighter [N] > Deadly Blow [S] > Martial Flexibility (Improved) [V] > Martial Prowess [H]
              Rogue: Rogue [N] > Trap Sense [S] > Uncanny Reflexes [V] > Opportunist [H]
              Arcane Archer: Arcane Archer I > Arcane Archer II > Arcane Archer III
              Eldritch Knight: Eldritch Knight I > Eldritch Knight II > Eldritch Knight II

              We've got four Edge trees above. You can "unlock" one of these at each rank by taking the first Edge.

              You might start as a Fighter. Then unlock Arcane Archer at Seasoned. And unlock Rogue at Veteran. And unlock Eldritch Knight at Heroic. So you would look like this:

              [Novice AKA Character Generation]: Fighter




              [Seasoned]: Arcane Archer I

              [5]: Deadly Blow

              [6]: Arcane Archer II


              [Veteran]: Rogue

              [9]: Trap Sense

              [10]: Uncanny Reflexes

              [11]: Arcane Archer III

              [Heroic]: Eldritch Knight I

              [13]: Eldritch Knight II

              [14]: Eldritch Knight III

              The solution might be we need to come up with a term for this, but then we need to explain that turn and we're using up more space. So if we can draft text that explains the concept using plain language and the existing terms, it should be easier to understand and require less space to explain.


              • Donald Schepis
                Donald Schepis commented
                Editing a comment
                smcc360 If by Advanced Edges you mean the II and III versions of a Prestige Edge, yes. You can take all three in a row the moment you hit Seasoned, one at Seasoned and two at Veteran, etc.

              • smcc360
                smcc360 commented
                Editing a comment
                I meant the Advanced Edges mentioned on page 43, which I thought was the term for 'class abilities' like the Barbarian's Powerful Blow (Seasoned), Intimidating Glare (Veteran), and Strength Surge (Heroic).
                Last edited by smcc360; 04-06-2021, 11:09 AM.

              • Donald Schepis
                Donald Schepis commented
                Editing a comment
                smcc360 I didn't realize that was the term we went with for that. Yes, you can take the Advanced Edge at any point during that Rank.

            • #9
              Originally posted by Donald Schepis View Post
              The core crux of the issue is we don't have a term for Edges that are basically an Edge tree.
              I think the wording in v1.1 is better, however I think the Prestige edges confuse things slightly by having the requirement of Seasoned on every one of them. It would be clearer if they went Seasoned > Veteran > Heroic like class the edges do.

              I think I would also add to the Multiclassing opening paragraph:
              Originally posted by SPF V1.1 p43
              Characters in Savage Pathfinder can take an additional core Class Edge or new core Prestige Edge, but only once each Rank. This means that they could potentially take a second core class at Seasoned, a third one at Veteran and so on.
              Suggested extra text in bold.
              Last edited by dbm; 04-04-2021, 09:29 AM.


              • Deskepticon
                Deskepticon commented
                Editing a comment
                ... It would be clearer if they went Seasoned > Veteran > Heroic like class the edges do.
                What if the Edges aren't meant to be Veteran or Heroic? It seems like the intention is that once you unlock a Prestige Class, you can blast through it fairly quickly. All in one Rank if you want, opening the character up to a NEW class as they hit the next Rank.

              • Donald Schepis
                Donald Schepis commented
                Editing a comment
                Like Deskepticon said, you could take all three levels of a Prestige Edge for your first three Seasoned advances.

              • dbm
                dbm commented
                Editing a comment
                Ah, for some reason I had not processed the wording for the level 2 and 3 edges.

            • #10
              How i would word it.
              "You may take one class or prestige assignment edge per rank. If you take one as your free edge, that counts for novice. Class and prestige improvement edges do not have this limitation."


              • #11
                How about on pg. 43, “Characters in Savage Pathfinder can have multiple core Class Edges or core Prestige Edges, but only one may be taken each Rank.”


                • #12
                  When you do reward it make sure you include some sort of statement for characters who reach legendary such as once per every 4 advancements