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Power Point recovery and the 5 minute work day

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  • Power Point recovery and the 5 minute work day

    Okay, generally liking the SWPF so far. The only major bump is the Wizard. Among other things, their power point recovery. The 8-hour rest to recover spell slots (power points in SWPF) in Pathfinder/3.x was a bug, not a feature. I suggest one of the following options (normal/rapid recharge/improved rapid recharge):
    1. Standard SWADE 5/10/20 points per hour - Could be the fastest, maybe too fast for a dungeon crawl?
    2. 1d4/2d4/3d4 points per hour (dice can not ace) - Variable but you still get something for a short rest.
    3. 1d4/2d4/3d4 points per hour (dice can ace) - Variable but you still get something for a short rest, maybe all your points back.
    4. 2/4/6 points per hour - Fixed small amount, you get something for a rest but it will not fully recharge you.
    5. A number of dice equal to 1/2/3 Spellcasting dice - variable but the more skilled a spellcaster you are, the faster you can recover your power points.
    I'm leaning towards #2 and #5 myself. Any other options? What do you think?

    EDIT: So, it looks like they're making a change for the next version.
    • Spend a benny for 1d4 (no aceing) pp.
    • Regain 5/10/20 pp for each hour of rest.
    Last edited by Techogre; 04-02-2021, 12:35 AM.

  • #2
    I’m leaning towards just going with the standard option (5/10/20 per hour). I don’t see that it is a problem currently in SWADE, and don’t feel the need to change it just to enforce the need for long rests. We play Savage Worlds to avoid that. I don’t think it will be too fast for dungeon crawls, since it only recharges while resting, and I don’t count stalking through dungeons as being tranquil enough. If they want to find a spot to rest for an hour, that would work of course.

    The other options suggested just seem to small to be worth it. I mean, they’re better than 8-hours or nothing, but I don’t think they’re enough.

    I’m basing this on the personal experiences of my group with SWADE. None of my non-caster players have ever felt overshadowed by the caster. And I find the 5/hour means the casters don’t spend all their edges trying to improve their PP totals. I like when characters aren’t forced to spend all their advances just to support their archetype...leads to more rounded and realized characters (and happier players). In my experience.

    Comment


    • Techogre
      Techogre commented
      Editing a comment
      You may have convinced me. To be fair, I have only been playing SW a short time, so I haven't quite grokked the subtleties of the system,

      Thank you for your insight.

    • Reef
      Reef commented
      Editing a comment
      I'm glad you found it useful, Techogre. As I said, it's based on the personal experiences of me and my group with SWADE, so mileage my vary

  • #3
    I would leave PP regeneration the same as core SWADE, but heavily enforce when they recharge. Namely, anytime the party is in a dungeon or other stressful situation, PP don't recharge. A fitful rest (such as stopping for an hour to plan how you are going to attack the dragon sleeping in the next room) is not sufficient enough to recharge Power Points. This more-or-less captures the "feel" of PF's spell management while keeping the ease-of-play the Savage Worlds system brings to the table.

    To put it to an example:
    The party are tasked with removing a threat from a nearby ruin. They arrive early in the morning and begin tackling the many traps and creatures that await them. Throughout this crawl, the magic users do not recharge any PP, no matter if they decide to sit down for a breather. After defeating the Big Bad Dungeon Beast, they return to town to collect their pay and have some brewskis. A couple hours pass and it is now late afternoon. This is rest. The magic users get back 10 PP... which is good because the Big Bad Dungeon Beast they killed was NOT the real threat! The real threat is pist her child has been murdered and is about to take her aggression out by destroying the town. Gonna need all those Power Points taking on this raging monster!

    Comment


    • Techogre
      Techogre commented
      Editing a comment
      Tumola I'm not sure about the 1d4, With the above limitations (i.e. you need to really rest, not just stop for a bit) I think 5 points per hour is reasonable. Still, either would be an improvement over nothing without 8 hours of sleep.

    • Samurai007
      Samurai007 commented
      Editing a comment
      Rather than just 1d4 per Bennie, I like a Spirit roll's worth of PP regained (no wild die, just the Spirit attribute die). This gives a way to improve/increase the number of points regained on a Bennie, and it has a reason behind it (Your Spirit represents your willpower).

    • Deskepticon
      Deskepticon commented
      Editing a comment
      Samurai007 Personally, I don't like extraneous and/or unnecessary rolling, and random Power Point regeneration falls squarely into this category. Furthermore, I have no idea why the devs decided random PP recovery on a Benny was at all a good idea (it's not!), nor why anyone is even continuing to entertain the concept. First of all, it has no basis in the source material, and second, the unpredictable nature of the mechanic does nothing to instill any confidence in it use. A caster is much better off being a little stingy with powers and saving that Benny for a reroll... which really seems counter to a high-magic setting where even a forest ranger can cast spells.

  • #4
    Originally posted by Reef View Post
    I’m leaning towards just going with the standard option (5/10/20 per hour). I don’t see that it is a problem currently in SWADE, and don’t feel the need to change it just to enforce the need for long rests. We play Savage Worlds to avoid that. I don’t think it will be too fast for dungeon crawls, since it only recharges while resting, and I don’t count stalking through dungeons as being tranquil enough. If they want to find a spot to rest for an hour, that would work of course.

    The other options suggested just seem to small to be worth it. I mean, they’re better than 8-hours or nothing, but I don’t think they’re enough.

    I’m basing this on the personal experiences of my group with SWADE. None of my non-caster players have ever felt overshadowed by the caster. And I find the 5/hour means the casters don’t spend all their edges trying to improve their PP totals. I like when characters aren’t forced to spend all their advances just to support their archetype...leads to more rounded and realized characters (and happier players). In my experience.
    Yeah, I'm going to house rule it to SWADE's rules if it doesn't officially get changed back to those recovery rates. I bought into the kickstarter for this because I liked SWADE's magic system. I *very* much dislike D&D's/Pathfinder's magic systems, by and large, which is a major reason I haven't stuck with those games.

    Comment


    • stadi
      stadi commented
      Editing a comment
      "I bought into the kickstarter for this because I liked SWADE's magic system. I *very* much dislike D&D's/Pathfinder's magic systems, by and large, which is a major reason I haven't stuck with those games." Same here. I can already play D&D if I want to, I don't need SW for that. But as the magic system in D&D is one of the things I hate most about it (the second one is the lack of control over skill, but that is still solved in this version) I wanted this to use the SWADE magic system.

  • #5
    Rather than 5/10/20 I’d like it tied to Smarts or Spirit (as appropriate for the AB). Trait/2 per hour, doubled with Rapid Recharge and doubled again for Improved RR.

    Comment


    • #6
      Originally posted by Dogfisc View Post
      Rather than 5/10/20 I’d like it tied to Smarts or Spirit (as appropriate for the AB). Trait/2 per hour, doubled with Rapid Recharge and doubled again for Improved RR.
      I'd be okay with this in theory. But considering most casters are going to hit d10 in the relevant stat probably sooner rather than later, it becomes a moot point for a lot of cases. In that case, for the sake of simplicity, it's probably just easier to say 5/10/20 across the board

      Comment


      • #7
        Originally posted by Reef View Post

        I'd be okay with this in theory. But considering most casters are going to hit d10 in the relevant stat probably sooner rather than later, it becomes a moot point for a lot of cases. In that case, for the sake of simplicity, it's probably just easier to say 5/10/20 across the board
        I have seen casters in other SW games that sit at d8 (or even d6) Smarts/Spirit because spellcasting is the only skill they’re raising above that. Not a big difference though, so I don’t feel strongly about it either way.

        Comment


        • Deskepticon
          Deskepticon commented
          Editing a comment
          I don't have SWPF, but from what I understand most (all?) caster Class Edges have an attribute requirement of d8+. Using your proposed rule, you will never have a situation where a caster is gaining less than 4pp/hour on a recharge.

          I really like the concept and how it self-mitigates casters (especially multiclass casters) by reducing the potential of a dump stat, but it doesn't seem to mesh well with the currently written rules PF is using.

        • Dogfisc
          Dogfisc commented
          Editing a comment
          None of the class edges have a trait requirement higher than d6.

        • Deskepticon
          Deskepticon commented
          Editing a comment
          Dogfisc Aha, thanks! That may make the rule a bit more appealing. To me at least.

      • #8
        Originally posted by Dogfisc View Post

        I have seen casters in other SW games that sit at d8 (or even d6) Smarts/Spirit because spellcasting is the only skill they’re raising above that. Not a big difference though, so I don’t feel strongly about it either way.
        Yeah, I guess it could come up. But as you said, I'm not sure the difference between 4 and 5 points an hour is worth the complexity of turning it into a calculation. Not that it's hard math to do, but it is one more thing to have to think about instead of a blanket rule.

        Comment


        • #9
          So, it looks like they're making a change for the next version.
          • Spend a benny for 1d4 (no aceing) pp.
          • Regain 5/10/20 pp for each hour of rest.

          Comment


          • Toa Lewa
            Toa Lewa commented
            Editing a comment
            I'm glad they are changing this. The archaic rest rules annoy me!

          • stadi
            stadi commented
            Editing a comment
            where is the info from? Still not a fan of the first one (if they need to convince me it's already bad), but the second one is good news.

          • Donald Schepis
            Donald Schepis commented
            Editing a comment
            We outlined the design process behind the changes to spellcasting in our weekly Design Corner on Twitch! You can watch the VOD here: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/971712596 or wait a week to watch it on YouTube.
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