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  • Rogues need something more...

    Most classes get at least a couple of special features, but the Rogue only has 1: Sneak Attack. It's a good one, but I think they need something more. I would make them skill masters. When you become a Rogue, you receive +3 additional skill points to divide among Athletics, Common Knowledge, Gambling, Intimidation, Languages, Notice, Persuasion, Stealth, Taunt, and Thievery.

    I purposely did not include Fighting or Shooting, the players can take those on their own, but the skills I chose seemed particularly "Rogue-like"....

  • #2
    Actually, I think the Sneak Attack bonus might be enough. It's a more powerful version of the Assassin Edge in standard SWADE.

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    • #3
      I’d agree with werenimal. I think the sneak attack feature a good feature. They may not have as many features as other classes, but they also don’t have as many drawbacks. I’d be really loathe to give them extra skill points. To me, that is starting to feel like trying to convert the system mechanics of Pathfinder, instead of the flavour of the setting. Which is something I definitely want to avoid.

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      • #4
        I don't know. I actually really like the idea of giving Rogues the three bonus skill points. Besides, there's already precedent for that as a setting rule in SWADE core. I was actually saying the same thing to my wife yesterday (she's a Rogue fan).

        I agree that sneak attack is super potent as it is and that Rogues don't otherwise have many drawbacks. Some on here have said that Rogues seem kind of weak, but I like them pretty good. I could take or leave the extra skill points thing, but I don't think it's crazy to give them 3 extra skill points. You have to consider that while a bonus d6 damage is great, it's also situational (Vulnerable or Drop) and rogues can't wear medium/heavy protective gear. Sneak Attack might be better than the SWADE assassin edge, but that edge doesn't exist in SWPF. Instead, it's a whole tree of Prestige edges that are based off of Sneak Attack.

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        • #5
          I’m just wondering if the extra skill points are needed to build a rogue. I get where the logic comes from. Pathfinder is a class based system, skills are class restricted, the rogue is the default skill monkey class, therefore the SW rogue needs more skill points than everyone else. But SW doesn’t restrict skills. I don’t think it needs a class edge to lump all the skill monkeys under. If they want to be a skill monkey, they can take more skill advances.

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          • Leatherneck556
            Leatherneck556 commented
            Editing a comment
            Fair point. I see both sides of the argument. Giving them the three extra skills points up front is a good way to use mechanics to reinforce the "rogues are skill monkeys" trope without forcing players to take a lot of skill advances later on. I can also see your point that it's just not necessary.

            I absolutely feel WAY less strongly about this topic than about PP recovery, Cantrips costing PP, Wizards not really being versatile spellcasters like in the source material, and Monks being an extremely weak class overall.

        • #6
          Skill points are very valuable in Savage Worlds! Two skill points are equivalent to an entire Edge during character generation, and you are suggesting three. That's definitely too strong. But I agree that the Rogue does not entirely convey that Pathfinder "feeling". I think they should get some bonuses that feel good but aren't actually that powerful.

          I suggested on another thread that they should be allowed to use Thievery as a replacement for any other skill as prerequisite for Professional and Social Edges. This would also make the rogue more "skilled" without giving them flat skill points.

          Or they could be allowed to use Gambling as part of the Networking mechanic.

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          • #7
            I like either of those two suggestions much better than flat skill points, if something else is needed.

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            • Samurai007
              Samurai007 commented
              Editing a comment
              Remember that I didn't just give them 3 skill points to spend any way they want, it's limited to the specific "Rogue-like skill's I mentioned. I don't really care for expanding skill definitions for 1 class only. But if the Pinnacle folks felt 2 bonus skill points was a fairer number, I'd be ok with that too. (Remember, previously Savage Worlds did give starting characters 15 skill points. It was dropped to 12 skill points with SWADE, but it also introduced the red-font "common skills" that all characters start with, so it balanced out. This is in the same vein: this one class gets some bonus skill points, but they must be spent on these select skills (and they are not really combat focused).

          • #8
            Would giving them the Jack of All Trades Edge cover this need?

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            • Tumola
              Tumola commented
              Editing a comment
              Then you would add a full Edge onto another already pretty good Edge. That's too powerful. Why would anyone ever take Jack of All Trades if you get it for free plus Sneak Attack with the Rogue Edge?

            • Café Truck
              Café Truck commented
              Editing a comment
              Doesn’t the rogue edge come with some class restrictions? Armor and such? Also, you can only take one class edge per rank, yeah? That’s a pretty good way to protect other edges. And if there’s concern about balance, you can always add on another limitation/class restriction.

          • #9
            Well, in 1sty edition, rogues (thieves back then), got the first skills, with percentiles to disarm traps, pick pockets, and other thiefy things. Later, those were offloaded into the general skill list, and were given as defaults for the class.

            Later on, the rogue became more of a skill based class, with the backstab being the most of it's class features.

            So, perhaps offering a free profession edge that offers bonuses to a set of skills? Rogue soldiers, thieves, and thugs come to mind?

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            • Tumola
              Tumola commented
              Editing a comment
              When you add another full Edge to the already good Rogue Edge, you make it too powerful.
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