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Sorcerer versus Magic User, number of powers and power points

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  • Sorcerer versus Magic User, number of powers and power points

    Just curious, looking at these two Class edges, it reads like the Magic user is simply superior.
    Both get 10 power points
    Magic user gets 3 powers, Sorcerers gets 2 powers
    Magic users gets bonus edge in form of Bond
    Sorcerer gets bonus edge that is more variable.

    So I am curious from other users what am I missing here that balances the two of them out?

    (This is not a criticism or design complaint, more of a "what am I missing" thing.)

  • #2
    It could be a typo; ABs that grant two powers normally give 15 PPs base.

    Comment


    • #3
      Not needing a spell book (which is effectively an added Hindrance).

      Comment


      • Ndreare
        Ndreare commented
        Editing a comment
        This could be the reason.

    • #4
      I'm guessing the designers thought a Sorcerer Bloodline, in all its versions, is slightly better than a Bonded Object/Familiar. Many certainly have some nice defensive bonuses built in.

      Comment


      • Ndreare
        Ndreare commented
        Editing a comment
        Hum,
        It could be, but then again one of the bloodlines is the ability to pick the wizard ability (this is what the sample character did, which I found odd).

    • #5
      The Arcane Bloodline is identical to the wizard’s Arcane Bond

      Comment


      • #6
        Also, looking back at Sorcerer vs Wizard in Pathfinder itself, one of the key differences was that sorcerers had less spells but could cast more of them. I’m pretty convinced this is a typo.

        Raised it as a possible typo.
        Last edited by dbm; 03-26-2021, 08:19 PM.

        Comment


        • Ndreare
          Ndreare commented
          Editing a comment
          I was expecting the Sorcerer to have Gifted, not Magic. I was surprised at the decision myself.

      • #7
        Originally posted by dbm View Post
        Also, looking back at Sorcerer vs Wizard in Pathfinder itself, one of the key differences was that sorcerers had less spells but could cast more of them. I’m pretty convinced this is a typo.
        Could be they had Sorcerers casting like a Mystic Powers rather than an Arcane Background? Or Wizards and Bards should have worse problems on Critical Failures in Spell casting (Which has been a thing in previous Savage Worlds settings).

        Or they are supposed to be like Arcane Background(Gifted) and have 15 Power Points and 1 Power. i.e the equivalent of - 1 New Powers Edge and +1 Extra Power Points one.

        Comment


        • #8
          Weird Science is 15PP and two powers

          Comment


          • #9
            Since the iconic sorcerer on the following page has four powers, and has New Powers as a starting Edge, I believe the text was intentional.
            Last edited by Sarigar; 03-26-2021, 09:53 PM.

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            • #10
              Originally posted by Sarigar View Post
              Since the iconic sorcerer on the following page has four powers, and has New Powers as a starting Edge, I believe the text was intentional.
              And in the Advances for the Iconic, the Power Points Edge she takes multiple times adds to a starting number of 10, so that seems intentional, too.

              Comment


              • #11
                I agree, while Wizards and other casters may know more spells, Sorcerers should be able to use the ones they do know more often. 2 starting powers = 15 power points, 3 starting powers = 10 power points, that has always been the Savage Worlds way.

                Comment


                • #12
                  Perhaps the gifted model of 1 starting power and 15 power points like Gifted?

                  I am curious how it will settle out after revisions. Though it was pointed out above that Wizards have a spellbook limitation, that sorcerers circumvent.

                  Comment


                  • #13
                    From a balance standpoint, if the Bloodline and Bonded are balanced, then the authors must view the wizard's spellbook as a 1 point hindrance, which balances the sorceror's one less power (half an Edge - New Power grants 2 powers, where an Edge costs 2 points of hindrance). Their approach seems to leave wizards and sorcerors at a disadvantage versus the other spellcasting classes.

                    From a balance and thematic point of view, I would prefer that wizards have 3 powers and 10 power points, without the spellbook hindrance, while sorcerors have 1 power and 15 power points. These two are equivalent (they both take one Edge to get to 3 powers and 15 power points) and they are what all the other classes receive.

                    Comment


                    • Samurai007
                      Samurai007 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Sorcerer typically have more than just 1 spell. I think of the "Gifted" as Marvel's mutants or other minor superheroes. (a single specific power that makes them Gifted, but otherwise pretty normal folks.)

                    • schuller80
                      schuller80 commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Yes, sorcerors have more than 1 spell. And wizards have more than 3 spells. In D&D. Working within the bounds of SWPF, the numbers scale differently.

                  • #14
                    Originally posted by dbm View Post
                    Weird Science is 15PP and two powers
                    Weird science has other restrictions. You need your hardware foci and you have penalties or cannot use the power without it.

                    Plus the things that mutter in your dreams and try to get you to destroy the world.

                    Comment


                    • #15
                      Originally posted by schuller80 View Post
                      From a balance standpoint, if the Bloodline and Bonded are balanced, then the authors must view the wizard's spellbook as a 1 point hindrance, which balances the sorceror's one less power (half an Edge - New Power grants 2 powers, where an Edge costs 2 points of hindrance). Their approach seems to leave wizards and sorcerors at a disadvantage versus the other spellcasting classes.

                      From a balance and thematic point of view, I would prefer that wizards have 3 powers and 10 power points, without the spellbook hindrance, while sorcerors have 1 power and 15 power points. These two are equivalent (they both take one Edge to get to 3 powers and 15 power points) and they are what all the other classes receive.
                      I mentioned this elsewhere, but may as well repeat it here...

                      The way the Savage Worlds powers system works is very similar to how Sorcerors cast powers. If the sorceror's "one fewer" power was indeed to balance out against the wizard's spellbook drawback, then that is a completely backward approach to game design. They should have made the Sorceror class the baseline, with 3 powers and 10 PP, and give the Wizard more starting powers to compensate for the need to use a spellbook (I would give them 4 with 10 PP).

                      Comment


                      • Samurai007
                        Samurai007 commented
                        Editing a comment
                        ...even if the Wizards can't use all the spells they know all the time. The Wizard's being able to choose their prepared spells from a list is part of the class, not being able to cast more spells all the time. So, I can see "know 4 (or I prefer 5) spells to start, choose 3 to prepare each day," and when gaining new powers "choose 3 to learn, prepare +2 spells each day."
                        Last edited by Samurai007; 03-29-2021, 10:19 PM.

                      • Deskepticon
                        Deskepticon commented
                        Editing a comment
                        Samurai007 That adds a bit of bookkeeping, but it's not a bad idea.
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