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Clarification around Size

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  • Clarification around Size

    Okay currently there seem to be three somewhat contradictory and confusing ways that describe size and the various things that work off it.

    So every level of size gives +1 toughness and there are small/normal/large/huge/gargantuan categories that are based on size but may/may not be linked directly.

    The problem at the moment is that the rules are horribly inconsistent and confusing.

    If you add size to a creature but don't add small/large/huge then they get the bonus to toughness but not the benefit/negative to hit/be hit.

    If you are a PA/RA/Vehicle since SFC then ignore any of that and no matter how big you are then it is -2 for you to hit anyone regardless of size and they are +2 to hit you regardless of size, even if they are godzilla.

    If you use the growth/shrink power to add levels of size then when you go to size 4 you are considered large and above 8 you are considered Huge automatically and get the -2/+2 to hit/be hit by others if they are a category larger/smaller than you.

    So my problem is that I'm not sure if this is meant to be this contradictory and confusing, or if it is part of the slimmed down approach to the writing of the SW rules where it was assumed that by the time you got to reading about the huge/large categories in the bestiary then you would have already read the growth/shrink power and understand how size works i.e. whenever and however you get to size 4, at that point you are automatically considered Large.

    can anyone help with this?

  • #2
    Originally posted by Demonetrigan View Post
    Okay currently there seem to be three somewhat contradictory and confusing ways that describe size and the various things that work off it.

    So every level of size gives +1 toughness and there are small/normal/large/huge/gargantuan categories that are based on size but may/may not be linked directly.

    The problem at the moment is that the rules are horribly inconsistent and confusing.

    If you add size to a creature but don't add small/large/huge then they get the bonus to toughness but not the benefit/negative to hit/be hit.

    If you are a PA/RA/Vehicle since SFC then ignore any of that and no matter how big you are then it is -2 for you to hit anyone regardless of size and they are +2 to hit you regardless of size, even if they are godzilla.

    If you use the growth/shrink power to add levels of size then when you go to size 4 you are considered large and above 8 you are considered Huge automatically and get the -2/+2 to hit/be hit by others if they are a category larger/smaller than you.

    So my problem is that I'm not sure if this is meant to be this contradictory and confusing, or if it is part of the slimmed down approach to the writing of the SW rules where it was assumed that by the time you got to reading about the huge/large categories in the bestiary then you would have already read the growth/shrink power and understand how size works i.e. whenever and however you get to size 4, at that point you are automatically considered Large.

    can anyone help with this?
    Not actually contradictory but let's see if we can clarify. Let's start with the core rules.

    The Small/Large/Huge ability states <italics added>, "Creatures the size of rats or pixies are very difficult to hit, especially when moving. Assuming such a creature is active, attackers subtract 2 from any attack rolls directed at it. Large creatures, at least the size of a rhino, are somewhat easier to hit. Attackers may add +2 to any attack rolls directed at Large targets. Truly Huge creatures, at least as big as a dragon, are +4 to be hit."

    That is immediately after the chart from the Size Ability lists...

    "–2 Cat, fairy, pixie, large rat, dog
    ...
    +4 Rhino, great white shark
    ...
    +8 Dragon"

    In that case, I will say it is presumed the reader is aware of the prior list since it is just above the Small/Large/Huge listing on the same page.

    So a creature with Small falls under Size -2, Large begins at Size +4, and Huge at Size +8. All the same as listed under the Growth/Shrink power. The only exception is Gargantuan (a separate ability) where a creature must be at least Size +9, but only kicks in for the power at Size +11. Meaning a GM could create a critter with Gargantuan at Size +9 (since a GM can give an NPC anything they want), but a player could only access it at Size +11.

    As far as the SFC goes, the attack modifiers for Size are specifically in the chapters for Starships, Vehicles, and Walkers and only apply to attacks by or against them (doesn't affect Power Armor at all). Those three aren't creatures so they don't have Monstrous Abilities, thus Small/Large/Huge don't apply to them.

    However, it's not -2 for them to hit "anyone" or +2 for them to hit you "regardless of size." As noted under Size in those chapters, "Add +2 if the target is at least two points of Size greater than the attacker, and subtract 2 if it’s 2 points smaller or more."

    So for them, the +2/-2 is based on whether the target is 2 or more Sizes larger or smaller.

    Hope that helps and clarifies.
    Clint Black
    Forum Admin & Rules Answer Guy
    Savage Worlds Brand Manager

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