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  • #31
    Debbie Dallas has Law Dog listed as edge. What is the "Law Dog" edge? What does it do?
    Last edited by Hellfire6A; 01-23-2020, 06:18 AM.

    Comment


    • Hellfire6A
      Hellfire6A commented
      Editing a comment
      Recommend that Colonial Ranger be given something similar to Law Dog from HOE. However, I'd recommend that it give a +1 to Persuasion and Intimidation.

  • #32
    Archetypes seem to have some issues. Anouk Warrior has Strength d6 and therefore cannot use either of his weapons to their full potential.

    Comment


    • Hellfire6A
      Hellfire6A commented
      Editing a comment
      Brawny seems to offset to a certain degree but having a melee warrior type with a Strength of d6 seems odd.

  • #33
    p.105 : when drawing an Ace for the Veteran table, you get "Forsaken". No beneficial magic works on the character as he is cut off from the Hunting Grounds. Shouldn't it give the Forsaken Hindrance too, considering that text says explicitely that Banshee won't help ?

    Comment


    • #34
      Archetype errors:
      ( I didn't check whether the points for Traits and Hindrances add up correctly)

      Anouk Shaman:
      - his Parry doesn't include +1 bonus from the Ka'nil staff
      - Powers section doesn't mention backlash - doesn't standard dynamic backlash table apply?

      Anouk Warrior:
      - listed Parry is 5, while from the Fighting d8 it should be 6 (Chakira adds +1 to that)

      Colonial Ranger (male):
      - his Agility of d6 is not enough for the Quick Edge
      - his toughness is 8(4), should be 9(4)

      Anouk scout:
      - her Spirit of d6 is not enough for Elan Edge

      Colonial Ranger (female):
      - her parry should be 6
      - her Common Knowledge of only d4 and inability to speak Anouk prevent her from having Colonial Ranger Edge

      Harrowed:
      - his Parry should be 6
      - his Spirit of d4 is not enough to take Harrowed Edge

      Salvager:
      - her Parry should be 4
      - she needs Luck to take the Scavenger Edge

      Comment


      • #35
        More feedback after second reading:
        p19 We know that Base prime moon is somehow habitable, it'd be nice to know whether there is a native life there.
        p32 Derived statistics mention "rounding down" which makes no sense as dice have even number of sides (if it's about d12+1 please clarify)
        p33 Edges: I'm not sure if really all Edges are available, one doubtful that comes to my mind is Artificer (and some ABs).
        p35: Lyin' eyes: typo: "This includes Gambling in the game features any element of bluffing."
        p37 "Don't get ’im Riled" was already commented, I want to point out a synergy with Tenderfoot which I'm not sure is intended
        p41 It'd be nice to have information about how long a results of a rarity roll stands, i.e. when can it be attempted again when its result was a failure or heroes bought all the items it allowed (I guess this time should depend on the settlement size)
        p42 Recycled gear section states "Only the types of gear listed below are available" - there seems to be no list
        p43 Palmcorder gives +2 to Smarts skills, isn't that high? I've read that part of the SWADE design philosophy was reducing most modifiers to +1 (in some part because of Support rules)
        p45 Description of the Armoured spacesuit ends with "This raises its Armor bonus to +4" - I think it's redundant (and possibly misleading, for a moment I though it's some additional bonus which should be applied)
        p47 Gyrojet has explosive tipped variant, I'd expect to affect targets in some template but none is mentioned
        p49 Gyrojet has explosive tipped variant, I'd expect to affect targets in some template but none is mentioned
        p50 m2hb lists min. Str when it has to be used on a tripod or mounted (it has n/a as min. Str in core)
        p51 Typo: "Stunners two small batteries."
        p53 125 cannon has strange formatting and doesn't mention the template for HE round
        p55 mule list 2 x armour upgrade in the modification list, according to modifications table this gives Heavy Armour, which is not mentioned
        p58 Repairs section states "Repairing hull damage (non-Critical Hits)" - what is it about? Each wound caused to a vehicle causes a roll on a critical hits table, one of the results is the chassis damage, I can't think of hull damage without critical hit.
        p59 I guess this comes from SFC, but ships are very expensive! It's hard for me to imagine who can pay PCs enough money for them to buy their own ship. I also miss some information about price comparison when working with HI and Space Hulls Ltd (or used ships in general).
        p63 Inconsistency: here we have information that gravity drive generates gravity equal to Earth's, on p65 that it's half Earth's
        p66 Unknown Destination states: "Assuming a decent sensor suite and something to detect, this takes d4 days followed by a successful Electronics roll (2d6 hours with a raise).". This suggests that we roll after 1d4 days which become 2d6 hours when roll ends up with a Raise - I think there is something wrong with how it is worded when it comes to order of doing things.
        p67 Hitting a gravity drive sounds like a great thing to attempt during a Chase, it'd be great to have a modifier for a called shot requred.
        p74 Anouk on the illustration has a shield but there are none on the list of Anouk gear, do native inhabitants of Banshee use shields?
        p74 Description of how to describe a Guardian is confusing. First player draws as many cards as character Ranks (like Harrowed) - that's clear. Bonus cards are not, though. Please rephrase that to be clearer, at least when it comes to Banshee Born Edge, as it seems strange that it gives bonus cards twice.
        p75 Banshee Scream is resisted by Spirit but leaves a physical effect (deafness), I think it should be resisted by Vigor
        p76 Harrowed edged is described as Arcane Background, I think that's incorrect as it has nothing to do with Powers
        p79 Please clarify whether Claws are Natural Weapons
        p82 Brain Dogs's specialty is long range psychic communication, is that some special ability (Mind Link is available to all psychics and range is not too long)?
        p83 "Red zombie" is mentioned but it's not described in the bestiary
        p84 TSAR gives the psyker benefit of an Aim manoeuvre but for some strange reason it lists only some of its possibilities (+2 bonus is missing). If it's full Aim manoeuvre just don't explain it, if the +2 is omitted on purpose just write that.
        p95 Boulder storm hazard. Spades and Clubs are supposed to be most dangerous but lucky roll may leave the hero unharmed. Hearts is less dangerous but unconditionally fatigues characters. I think it would be fair to give them a chance to avoid it by Vigor roll. Also: usually Spades is the best result for the character and it gets worse in descending order (see Chase complications), I think it'd be nice to stay consistent.
        p99 Instability: How long does sykergeist fights, until it is slain? Can it be escaped? I think some time limit would be nice here.
        p112 Encounters: usually Spades is the best result for the character and it gets worse in descending order (see Chase complications), I think it'd be nice to stay consistent.
        p114 Batrats: are described in bestiary as a swarm, 1d10+10 and remark about losing half the number makes little sense
        p115 Chanouk: bestiary says they hunt in mated pairs, meeting here more specimens is inconsistent
        p116 Razor wings are described in bestiary as a swarm, 1d10+10 and remark about losing alpha/half the number makes little sense
        p117 Tornado: inconsistency, there are different rules on page 96 (e.g. they let characters to move around the tornado)

        General remarks:
        - Wind power sounds like the solution to power problems on Banshee (non-stop winds) yet it is not mentioned at all. Even in Gear section, as the battery recharge device (instead of solar).
        - Something seems odd when it comes to population density. Population left after world storm is few million (p 12), but it's hard for me to place those souls based on the data from the book. Description of Settler archetype (p31) suggests that most people lives in space. We know only of the Belt (100000, p 17), are at least 1 million people live on other space stations? This seems strange as food can be only produced on Banshee, the technology level is not that great, so I'd expect majority living on the planet. Planet's gazeteer also makes it difficult to place spacers as biggest settlement is Temptation with 30000, Seaside (p22) second 20000...


        Comment


        • zgreg
          zgreg commented
          Editing a comment
          Small addition as I fell as I failed to present all ambiguities I see. I think it's unclear what exactly happens when a character dies. Procedure for both Guardian and Harowed start with drawing number of cards equal to hero's rank but only Guardian gives some bonus draws. Here is my interpretation:
          1. Seasoned PC dies and the Marshall says he can become both Harrowed and Guardian. Player draws 2 cards.
          2. If that card is a Joker that player can choose for her character to become Harowed or Guardian.
          3. If that card is not a Joker player can draw extra bonus cards (as listed in the Guardian's description) but joker no longer allows the character to become a Harrowed.
          Regardless if above is true please clarify that rule.

      • #36
        Syker's Archetype Card says his Arcane is tied to Banshee. This is highly inaccurate.

        Comment


        • #37
          The new version looks good, and fixed pretty much all of the issues I had (and I'm sure most of everyone else's problems, although I certainly can't speak for everyone).

          But I did manage to spot a minor hiccup: On page 173, breakers still have the breakdown power which no longer exists. This should probably be bolt.

          Comment


          • #38
            Planetary Communications has been mentioned several times in the scenarios in LC. However, the background and equipment descriptions pretty much rule that out. Radio on Banshee only goes a few miles and interference rules out reliable GPS (inertial navigation is the norm). This leaves some rather large plot holes in scenarios. It also means the Marshall is going to be struggling to allow/disallow comms on planet for PCs and NPCs alike. As an example the scenario "Comes a Red Horse" page 134 mentions "planetary communications" twice. NPCs are monitoring planetary communications. For a SciFi setting to have such a big plot hole seems a bit odd. I doubt there is a great enough amount of hand-wavium to cover that gaffe even for a space opera style of play.

            Comment


            • PEGShane
              PEGShane commented
              Editing a comment
              There's nothing portable you can carry around to talk to space from Banshee or vice-versa, but planetary stations and ship radios are large enough to communicate out to the Dark and back.

            • Hellfire6A
              Hellfire6A commented
              Editing a comment
              Just read the new LC. There is still an issue. I understand that the communications capability of a palmcorder can connect to ships radios or radio repeaters at colonies on planet, but no where is it explicitly stated in the new material. This will be a conundrum for GMs and players alike if they don't see your post.

          • #39
            Guardian Edge. A number of the scenarios in LC involve outer space (one of the reasons PCs are called spacers throughout the book). Outer space is pretty much kryptonite for any PC/NPC with more than a couple of Guardian Edges. I am honestly asking, is this nerf necessary? To lose all powers seems excessive. As a player I'd be more than a bit dubious about taking Guardian with that restriction.

            Comment


            • PEGShane
              PEGShane commented
              Editing a comment
              Great catch. We looked through some playtest notes and this came up before but didn't make it into the doc. Please amend the section on page 75 to read:

              Leaving Home
              A Guardian’s connection to Banshee fades if he leaves the Faraway System. After one Banshee year (700 Earth days), he loses all his abilities, including resistances, additional Toughness, Healing, and any Guardian Edges he may have (see below). His powers return when he reenters Banshee’s embrace.

          • #40
            With the emphasis on Space related activities it seems odd that only three of the Archetypes have even moderate Spacer skills. Electronics, Repair, Piloting seems to be the skills necessary for space adventures.

            Comment


            • #41
              Stat Block for EXFOR Dropship is missing lasers. page 58

              Comment


              • #42
                Originally posted by werenimal View Post
                The new version looks good, and fixed pretty much all of the issues I had (and I'm sure most of everyone else's problems, although I certainly can't speak for everyone).

                But I did manage to spot a minor hiccup: On page 173, breakers still have the breakdown power which no longer exists. This should probably be bolt.

                The Breaker Archetype also has the Breakdown Power still.

                Comment


              • #43
                The new cover looks godawful and aside from the missing feet I'm not sure why it was changed. I'm not trying to be a dick about it, I just legit don't understand.

                The original had missing feet/a wonky right-side cloning issue, and I get that dragging the characters down/right vertically/horizontally would crowd them around the Savage Worlds logo (and that centering that in a specific position on the book is part of the SW design docs). But they're also scaled up in the new cover, irrespective of the background, so you had the files to work their position around. That original background art is pretty solid and I don't know why you'd want to hide it. This might only bug me as somebody who knows his way around photoshop, but the pen-tool jagged-edge on the rusty border is also pretty rough (I really hope that's not going to be on all the supplement books). In addition, it jams the remaining art in close. With so little of the background left over, it no longer communicates that the characters are in a vast wasteland planet. They're just kind of hanging out on a weird background, and you can't get a sense of any of it. Is that a building in the background? A spaceship? A monster skull? Who knows.

                Even just taking out the border on the top side of the page would improve the cover immeasurably. I get that it's probably too late, but geeze. It really feels like a shame. (If it's not too late, hi, I'm a freelance graphic designer and I love Deadlands enough that I would abandon my principles and work for free on a Deadlands product.)

                Otherwise, everybody's already caught the errors I caught. In terms of content, it's all looking pretty good.
                Last edited by AlanaRay; 02-11-2020, 11:08 PM.

                Comment


                • Hellfire6A
                  Hellfire6A commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I don't like the change either. It seems like "Red and Gabe" again from SWADE. Although I know that isn't supposed to be the case. Is Red the Savage Worlds mascot?

              • #44
                Like AlanaRay, I'm not a huge fan of the new cover. The upper part was nice and added to the view of the Spire.

                p.13 : Why does the timeline mentions the Unity crash-landing ? I was under the impression that really few people knew what was that meteor shower, and when reading the PP part where the posse goes to Two, it felt like everybody except Diehl was discovering the truth.
                p.21 : the scale feels a bit small to me. 50 miles makes One roughly the same size as France, if I didn't mix my math. Even with adverse weather and a certain lack of incentive to explore, I'd think that in 50 years all the continent would have been mapped ? Again, maybe I'm confused by the miles-kilometers difference.
                p.45 : Do Anouk have Tox/Space suit at their sizes ? With the Reapers helping the Azeel, I'd say that at least one of them thought of it and crafted a custom Anouk-sized spacesuit ?
                p.61 : Gravity drives can only be used on Gargantuan ships. On p.65, it's only on Huge or greater.
                p.70 : Can a Forsaken PC use an Azuli ? I'd say no, but maybe clarify this ?
                p.76 : It says that Anouks can't be Harrowed, and then, p.104, it says that Banshee won't let a Harrowed Shaman use her powers. Which is correct ?
                p.115 : When rolling a 4-6 with a EXFOR encounter, it says twice that their captain hints that she'll accept bribes.
                p.167 : Lasseter becomes Lassete, first line of his description.
                p.170 : Maybe rephrase War's Coup with something like 'War is so powerful his essence can be shared between all the people near it when it dies".

                Comment


                • Meister
                  Meister commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I had forgotten about Banshee Born Shamans, but the text explictly says "anouk shaman".

                • zgreg
                  zgreg commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Ah right. I think that's because the AB is called "Anouk Shamans". We can have a "human Breaker" or a "human Anouk Shaman". You are right, it's confusing, but it's probably present also in other places in the text.

                • AlanaRay
                  AlanaRay commented
                  Editing a comment
                  woops. yeah, I pulled the number for IRL Asia out of a google search because I'm not actually great at geography... And it was wrong. >_>;

              • #45
                Despite that I focus on the issues I find in the text I really like the updated version, good job!

                I agree with others about the cover, I liked the previous one better (this feels too heavy...).

                Geographical information about Banshee doesn’t add up. Page 20 states that 90% of the surface is land and Banshee has diameter of 7500 miles. This gives us area of 176 625 000 square miles. Using the scale on map on page 21 we can calculate that One is surprisingly small, it has around 670 miles vertically (at least five times smaller than Australia, around the size of Madagascar). With such size landmass shown certainly won’t reach 90% of the whole Banshee and climate zones make little sense. Page 22 tells about distances which assume bigger continent (“300 miles below the equator”). To get to the 10% total landmass has to be bigger than Africa, now that would enlarge One and Two to the size I’d love Even if it’s too much for your judgement I think that the continents definitely should be bigger… It would also be great to have the equator marked on the map.

                Final fight in the campaign could be described a bit clearer when it comes to the effect of the soul trap (p147). What exactly is nullified? This fight seems very problematic (too difficult and boring?) as regular weapons don’t work because of immunity and War’s Heavy Armour effectively makes black guns and Tannis weapons useless (unless buffed somehow, they are not a Heavy Weapon) what leaves only magic. Even then every Power needs Heavy Weapon and possibly AP modifier - it’s not fun and the chances of success seem too slim :/


                p43 Fundaments header points to “page xxx” (I don’t think it’s in the book yet)
                p45 Spacesuit no longer needs to mention ballistic protection, it is described at the top (meaning of an asterisk).
                p46 Anouk weapons (both hand and ranged) still have asterisk next to availability.
                p47 Gyrojet pistol AP rounds aren’t a Heavy Weapon (they are in SF Companion), I think that’s an error as such high AP stat is useless otherwise.
                p49 Gyrojet rifle is very heavy (lighter in SF companion). AP rounds aren’t a Heavy Weapon (and their AP stat is higher than in SFC).
                p53 Lasers: is it possible to recharge power cores or fire the laser “off the grid” (e.g. on a spaceship)?
                p57 Quick rules for fuel consumption make little sense for spaceships, the table shows that even Large ones can fly for hundreds of days.
                p58 Given the absurdly high ship prices repair cost is impossibly high. Small Freighter costs 5 million $, single repair is 500K$! Who could afford that? Maybe prices are “reallistic” but I think that they should be more playable instead… Self repairs probably also cost something, it would be nice to have some rule of thumb.
                p58 Destroyer doesn’t state where are some of its weapons placed. I still think it’d be very strange to mount it’s primary weapon in the fixed position, I’d rather have it in a turret even sacrificing some smaller arms.
                p58 From the description I think dropship has garage or passenger pods, not both.
                p59 Light freighter description mentions shields, which are not used in this setting.
                p59 Light freighter (including the Reckless) needs 5 crew members to operate. That seems high what is not fun for playability reasons (not every posse shall be that big) and because the ship has AI (does it account for that?). What are the responsibilities of the crew members? Are they all “tied up” in a Chase (and can’t e.g. shoot guns)?
                p61 It’d be great to have AI capabilities described in a bit more detail. Can it act on its own or only Support the crew? Given some common restrictions on AI, can it shoot living beings (other spaceships)?
                p63 Now only Gargantuan ships can have gravity drives.
                p64 Which character is pushed in zero-g, I guess the target of an attack, but does recoil affect the shooter as well?
                p67 Aren’t all ships at least Large? Even fighters shall be (modern aircraft are Large in core book). Given that PCs will most likely have an access to the light freighter it rather kills the Pilot archetype, as only Electronics now counts for piloting. I think it’s a shame, I wish light freighters (and smaller ships) needed less crew and still be Piloted.
                p76 Harrowed edge is “Arcane” while it doesn’t allow Powers. Please change it (or make Guardian also Arcane ba analogy).
                p76 Description of becoming guardian seems to give the player a choice if she wants the character to return, for Harrowed we read that it happens “whether the host wants to or not!”.
                p80 Now that there are non-EXFOR sykers (thanks! ), pariah not entirely true, I think that Outsider should be explained by the horrible stuff some sykers did during the war.
                p84 Shouldn’t TSAR’s scarcity be Unique?
                p88 Twilight legion is mentioned - are any members on banshee? Does it play any role?
                p93 Tunnel station has fear level of 2 while we otherwise states that turning on gravity drives ups it to 3 (see also widowmaker).
                p99 Instability, Brain Fry: how about a Vigor/Smarts roll to avoid losing Transmute die?
                p103 Dominion table: seems that lower is worse but spirit roll in 3 (mischief) is made with -2, for 4 (misfortune) without modifiers (lower it’s -4).
                p104 Manitou says that the reckoners are invulnerable while it is (sadly) no longer a case.
                p123 Reckless is Huge, should be Gargantuan.
                p124 Support Captain’s Piloting - shouldn’t be Electronics?
                p125 There is a Smarts rolls mentioned to plant nuke but there are no consequences of failure. Please provide them or get rid of the pointless roll.
                p130 Should number of moknar take hi marines into account?
                p134 I think HI researchers should also have Science skill.
                p147 Soul trap - isn’t the fight difficult enough? I’m not sure that time limit is needed here, maybe at least give the trap some chance of failing after round 10.
                p147 If Karg can fly away at will, why hasn’t he escaped War?
                p153 Need to Notice the harrowed at -2 is strange as failing it may skip the adventure...
                p159 Header out of frame.
                p163 Clever girls have no hook.
                p168 Ross should know Anouk language.
                p169 Typo in War's Two Fisted.
                p169 Vanessa quote seems no longer true, now that the Reckoners (regretfully) are no longer vulnerable.
                p172 Anouk Azeel has wrong Parry (he has Block).
                p173 Breaker has Breakdown, which is no more.
                p175 Digger’s have Burrow ability which is completely unreal to me. They are humans after all and tunnels don’t explain ability to move under ground with no penalties...
                p177 Reaper has no armour, which is strange as even outlaws have one. I think AK2047 would fit the guerilla theme more than M21.
                p177 Pirate ship should be Gargantuan now.
                p178 Pilot - see above about Piloting vs. Electronics for spaceships.
                p181 Braincrawler: Numbing effect is insanely powerful, even undead don’t have it and they are extremely numbed! Shouldn’t it just be Hardy instead? Weakness: who’s fatigued by removal attempt, braincrawler or host? How about giving a Vigour roll to avoid losing Smarts?
                p194 It would be great to have a similar summary for new Edges and Hindrances.


                EDIT: I forgot about one important issue: I still feel that we could use more information about Anouks. At least add the name of Banshee in Anouk language, it is a must!
                Last edited by zgreg; 02-14-2020, 01:27 PM.

                Comment


                • PEGShane
                  PEGShane commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Hey Greg! The book is at the printer but we were able to pull the file (they're a little behind unfortunately due to the coronavirus).

                  So... great feedback and I've addressed most of it. A few things we don't agree on, but your comments are excellent and greatly appreciated...we all want the best book possible.

                  We're debating about the size of Banshee and would love your input. This is holdover stuff from the original edition and we're a *little* afraid to touch it now in case we mess something else up (like the length of the Trail of Spears). Do you have a suggestion for what the scale on the map should be? That's about all I *think* we can do at this late stage. Thanks!

                  -Shane

                • zgreg
                  zgreg commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Wow, thanks, I'm flattered Glad that you've found my comments useful.

                  I can see why you are afraid of tinkering with the size at that time. I'm not an expert myself (just a guy who noticed that some numbers don't add up) but here's my trail of thought, maybe it will help you somehow.

                  Page 22 gives us the distance between the equator and south border of the jungle, it's 300 miles. I'm not sure where the equator passes exactly, but assuming it's at the center of the toxic jungle (per analogy to Africa) this would give us a scale of... 300 miles (130 pixels, exactly as our scale). In such case One grows to the height of Africa (around 4000 miles N-S) which makes (I think) most sense from the climate zone placement point of view, fits the 9-1 water-land ration and leaves a lot of room for adventures This would probably increase the number of Anouks and may probably question some facts described in the book, like that they were driven from plains.

                  Next interesting number for scale seems 200 miles. This grows One to around 2650 miles N-S what makes it roughly the size of Australia (rotated 90 degrees). The size may still be too big for some facts so I'm not sure if that's a compromise worth taking...

                  We are talking about fantasy world here so I think any choice will be OK as long as it is consistent. On the other hand LC makes an impression of a harder kind of SF, so people may expect it to feel real... I fail to see much things that could break at the moment while growing the continents, but maybe they could be *reasonably well* explained somehow? 600 miles long Trail of Spears sounds crazy but maybe Warfield was able to get funding for that providing some crazy military reasons? Maybe it was offset by the trees or other resources gathered in the process, or some rare commodity gathered in the jungle? Maybe there was a merchant who though that Spear Plants would be a business of his life and when he saw his error he was able to talk his uncl.. err, general Warfield into buying his whole supply for such a crazy project ? Or it was a romantic "we space pioneers can do the impossible" kind of thing?

                • Meister
                  Meister commented
                  Editing a comment
                  I think scaling One to be the same size as Australia would be good and not too disruptive for other things like Trail of Spears.

                  Honestly, I don't think a lot of people will complain if the Trail of Spears is "too long". There's a mass-altering device that permits space travel, so a bit more gardening here and there shouldn't be the first thing that bother people.
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