Savage War of the Burning Sky

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Zadmar
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Savage War of the Burning Sky

#1 Postby Zadmar » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:44 am

It was recently brought to my attention by Disemvowel on Google+ that the full War of the Burning Sky adventure path is now available for only $10. Yes, that's $10 for 708 pages of campaign (of which 414 pages are dedicated to the 17 detailed adventures, with the rest providing information about the setting).

You can also download the Campaign Guide and Player's Guide for free.

My NPC convertors for Pathfinder and D&D don't seem to accept the statblocks, but that shouldn't be hard to fix. I've also got my conversion bestiary which should already cover many of the monster concepts, and my magic item list which still needs finishing.

The adventure path can be slotted into existing settings, although it also has its own default setting - you could simply use the fantasy races from the core rulebook, although I'm probably going to put together my own.

For now I've concentrated on the Edges, spells and items from the free Player's Guide.


Arcane Backgrounds

War of the Burning Sky is designed for D&D, and the distinction between sorcerers and wizards is integrated into the fluff of the setting. Therefore Arcane Background (Magic) is replaced with Arcane Background (Sorcery) and Arcane Background (Wizardry). Arcane Background (Psionics) and Arcane Background (Miracles) can remain as they are. Arcane Background (Weird Science) and Arcane Background (Super Powers) aren't really appropriate, but if you wish to use them they could represent artificers and people with an innate psionic/magical talent respectively.

Arcane Background (Sorcery)
Arcane Skill: Sorcery (Spirit)
Starting Power Points: 15
Starting Powers: 2
This works the same as Arcane Background (Magic), except with +5 PP and 1 less power, the arcane skill is linked to Spirit, and it uses the Arcane Spell Failure rule.

Arcane Background (Wizardry)
Arcane Skill: Wizardry (Smarts)
Starting Power Points: 10
Starting Powers: 3
The number of powers a wizard has represents the number of spells he can memorise at any one time (i.e., 3 + however many New Power Edges he's taken). A wizard begins with 6 different spells in his spellbook, and gains 2 new spells each time he takes the New Power Edge. He may also learn additional spells from books and scrolls. Each spell is a power with a specific trapping, much like the examples in Savage Spellbook.
Whenever a wizard rolls 1 on his Wizardry skill die, the spell he's just cast vanishes from his mind, and needs to be re-memorised before it can be cast again. After 8+ hours sleep the wizard can memorise up to his full quota, with each spell requiring 10 minutes per rank to memorise.
Wizards use the Arcane Spell Failure rule, and their mechanics were inspired by this thread.


New Edges

The Player's Guide contains a number of new Feats and class abilities. I've attempted to keep the general flavour of them with my conversions (please see the original document for the flavour text, all I've described here are the mechanics of the conversion).

Spellduelist
Requirements: Novice, Arcane Background (Sorcery or Wizardry)
You can choose to use your arcane skill die instead of Smarts when making Smarts tricks. In addition, if someone on Hold attempts to interrupt you while you're casting a spell, you may use your arcane skill instead of Agility for the opposed roll.
Design note: This Edge sounds very specialised, but it's a bit more useful than it sounds, because the Ragesian Inquisitors (mage hunters with counterspell abilities) are a major part of the setting.

Mageknight
Requirements: Novice, Arcane Background (Wizardry)
You no longer suffer Arcane Spell Failure when wearing light armour or using shields.

Shining Warrior
Requirements: Seasoned, Fighting d8, Arcane Background (Sorcery or Wizardry)
You are able to make your weapon glow with an intense magical light. You can cast Light as if you had the power, however it can only be cast on a weapon you're wielding.
If you get a raise on your attack roll when using a glowing weapon, your opponent must make a Vigor roll or become Shaken. This is resolved before rolling damage, and doesn't apply to creatures that are blind or immune to being dazzled.
Finally, you can no longer be Shaken or blinded by light-based trappings and effects.

Vow of Healing
Requirements: Novice, Healing d6, Arcane Background (Miracles), Healing or Succor
Whenever you cast Healing or Succor, you have the option of paying an extra 2 Power Points in order to affect everyone within a Medium Burst Template, centred on yourself. Any undead within the Medium Burst Template are instead treated as if you'd cast Stun.

East Wind Style
Requirements: Novice, Arcane Background (Sorcery), Martial Artist, Spirit d8
You gain the Smite power with an Electricity (Armor Piercing) trapping, and it can be cast as a free action, although you may only cast it on yourself and it only applies to attacks made with your bare hands.
Characters with this Edge cannot cast spells with earth-based trappings.

West Wind Style
Requirements: Novice, Arcane Background (Miracles), at least one power with an air-based trapping
You can spend 1 Power Point as a free action to gain the ability to fly at your normal Pace until the beginning of your next turn. If you continue to activate this ability each round, you do not fall between rounds.
Each rank over Novice allows you to grant one additional willing target within Spirit range the ability to fly as well, using their own Pace. This doesn't cost any additional Power Points.
If you fall, either from using this Edge or from some other cause, you may spend 1 Power Point to negate the falling damage and land on your feet. You must declare this ability before rolling the falling damage.
Characters with this Edge cannot cast spells with earth-based trappings.

Leader Feats
Use the Leadership Edges from the core rulebook.


New Spells

The following spells are Power+trapping conversions in the style of Savage Spellbook.

Gabal’s Superior Missile
Rank: Novice
Power Points: 1 per missile
Range: 6/12/24
Duration: Instant
You fire a dart of magical energy at your target, inflicting 2d4+1 damage. This attack cannot miss - as long as you successfully cast it, it will always hit your opponent. However it cannot make called shots, and if your attack roll falls to reach the TN, the spell will inflict only half damage. You may fire up to 3 bolts at 1 PP each.
If this spell is cast as your only action for the round (i.e., you don't move or take any other actions) then you become aware of all creatures within the range of the spell (as long as they would normally be visible to you were it not for cover), and your attack ignores all penalties for cover, as long as there is a clear route between you and the target. The missile will swerve around corners and dive through open windows as it homes in on its target.
Design note: Based on Magic Missile from Savage Spellbook, except the range is halved, and it can ignore cover.

Stand the Heat
Rank: Novice
Power Points: 2
Range: Touch
Duration: 24 hours
The target becomes immune to all environmental damage and hazards caused by heat. They still suffer damage normally from heat-based attacks, but if they catch on fire they can automatically extinguish the flames as a normal action.
Design note: This is a variant of Environmental Protection with an improved duration, and it allows you to put yourself out if you're on fire, but it cannot be used for other environments.

Cancel
Rank: Novice
Power Points: 3
Range: Smarts
Duration: Instant
This spell allows you to counter another spell as it's being cast. You must be on Hold, and successfully interrupt the target while they're casting. If your arcane skill roll then exceeds theirs, their spell has been successfully countered.
Design note: This is a Novice version of Dispel, but it only allows you to counter spells as they're being cast. It ignores the normal penalty for dispelling powers from other Arcane Backgrounds.

Duelist’s Etiquette
Rank: Novice
Power Points: 1
Range: Touch
Duration: 1 hour
This spell creates a magical glowing barrier that surrounds an area the size of a Large Burst Template. All attacks within the barrier are automatically considered nonlethal. Whenever a creature enters the area (including when the spell is cast, if they're within the area), they must consciously agree to accept the conditions of the spell, otherwise the spell ends. Any creature within the area may also end the spell as a full-round action.
Design note: Unlike the other spells, this one isn't based on an existing power. It's really more of a flavour thing, and has no tactical value. You might want to give this spell for free to spellcasters from the Lyceum Academy, particularly if they have the Spellduelist Edge.

Wayfarer’s Step
Rank: Novice
Power Points: 3
Range: Smarts
Duration: 3 (2/round)
You are able to teleport distances equal to the range of this spell, but cannot pass through solid barriers, nor through gaps that are too small for you to fit through normally. You can attempt to surprise a foe with a Stealth roll opposed by their Notice; on a raise you get the Drop, on a normal success you gain half the benefit of the Drop.
Design note: This is a variant of Burrow that allows you to travel through air rather than earth. The range is halved, and there's no option for remaining submerged.


New Items

The following conversions are used for magical items.

Shatterspell
This vial can be thrown with a range of 3/6/12, and fills a 1" square on impact. Any creature within the area of effect must make a Smarts roll, on a failure they drop all of their currently maintained spells. The Smarts roll is made at -2 if the attacker got a raise on their Throwing roll. If the vial is frozen then the contents becomes liquid, and can be consumed like a potion, granting the drinker the Arcane Resistance Edge for 1 minute.

Potion bracer
This magical storage device can hold up to 10 potions. The wearer may also drink directly from the bracer if their hands are full.

EDIT: Updated to include feedback.
Last edited by Zadmar on Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:29 am, edited 2 times in total.

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#2 Postby Jonah Hex » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:16 am

Pretty nice, overall. I particularly like the fact that you came up with a Wizard conversion that doesn't suck. Well done.

Does New Power for the Wizard include a new Spell slot as well? I assume so, but you didn't say specifically.

Sorcerers get more spells per day to compensate for their lack of versatility. Maybe one less Power, or even two, with 15 spell points. Even restrict New Power to once per rank. Maybe too powerful, though.

Good luck with WotBS. I ran it for a little over a year using D&D 4e and it was gangs of fun until Epic tier started to suck the fun out but overall, a very good experience. Not my usual group or I might have considered SW, or even BESM or GURPS.
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#3 Postby Zadmar » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:03 am

Jonah Hex wrote:Does New Power for the Wizard include a new Spell slot as well? I assume so, but you didn't say specifically.

Yes it does, I've updated to clarify, thanks. The idea is that (after memorising their full quota) they have access to the same number of powers as Arcane Background (Magic), but they can swap them for different powers after resting (offset by the fact that they also temporarily lose them during play).

Jonah Hex wrote:Sorcerers get more spells per day to compensate for their lack of versatility. Maybe one less Power, or even two, with 15 spell points.

Good idea, I've gone with +5 PP and -1 power.

Jonah Hex wrote:Good luck with WotBS. I ran it for a little over a year using D&D 4e and it was gangs of fun until Epic tier started to suck the fun out but overall, a very good experience. Not my usual group or I might have considered SW, or even BESM or GURPS.

What sort of advancement rate do you think would be appropriate for Savage Worlds? I'm having a difficult time working out how many sessions it's likely to take - the combat encounters will certainly be much faster.

My gut feeling is to go with my standard "half an advance per session", and use the Shaintar approach of 5 advances per rank (rather than the core rules 4 per rank).

I've read complaints about the difficulty, and suggestions that characters should start at level 2 in D&D, but I suspect it'll be the opposite in Savage Worlds - starting characters are likely to mow down the first few encounters.

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#4 Postby Zadmar » Thu Jan 16, 2014 7:16 am

One of the issues I've seen discussed before is how to convert skill checks and saving throws. In D&D 3.x each such roll includes a Difficulty Class (DC), which you have to equal or exceed using d20+modifiers. And when you're converting an adventure, you're going to see a lot of those DC rolls.

Now the ideal approach would be to ignore the DC entirely, read the flavour text for the task you're trying to achieve, and come up with a fast Savage Worlds solution. If you're confident enough with handling it that way then you don't need any conversion rules, you can just wing it.

But if you're still fairly new to Savage Worlds, or the flavour text is a bit vague, and you want some sort of rough easy-to-remember guideline, I would personally recommend the following:

DC 5: You get a +1 bonus to the roll.
DC 10: No modifier.
DC 15: You get a -1 penalty to the roll.
DC 20: You get a -2 penalty to the roll.
DC 25: You get a -3 penalty to the roll.
DC 30: You get a -4 penalty to the roll.

So for example, if the adventure says you need to make a Reflex DC 20 check to avoid a falling object, you might treat that as an Agility roll at -2.

However an alternative approach is to change the TN. Some people won't like this, as most rolls in Savage Worlds are made against TN 4, however there is some precedent with Fighting vs Parry and damage vs Toughness. In this case, DC 5 would be TN 3, DC 10 would be TN 4, DC 15 would be TN 5, and so on.

This approach has two main benefits: First, it means the players don't know in advance exactly how well they need to roll, only that they want to get as high as possible (this also means you can fudge the TN if it's important to the story, and the players won't know); second, it's common in D&D adventures to be presented with a table showing different outcomes depending on how well you roll, rather than a simple success and failure, and this is easier to calculate if you change the TN rather than applying a modifier.

One thing to note is that Savage Worlds isn't quite so good at handling very granular results - I suspect that's why most modifers are +2 or -2, and why results typically only differentiate between steps of 4 (i.e., success and raise). I don't think this would be a major problem (particularly if, like me, you use fudge dice), but you may prefer to ignore the odd results - in that case I'd suggest treating DC 5 as automatic success, DC 10 and DC 15 would be +0, DC 20 and 25 would be -2, and DC 30+ would be -4.

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#5 Postby Jonah Hex » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:08 pm

Zadmar wrote:
What sort of advancement rate do you think would be appropriate for Savage Worlds? I'm having a difficult time working out how many sessions it's likely to take - the combat encounters will certainly be much faster.

My gut feeling is to go with my standard "half an advance per session", and use the Shaintar approach of 5 advances per rank (rather than the core rules 4 per rank).

I think this would work fine. You seem to be going with the 3.x version - the 4e has far more combats in it, seven vs. potentially 20 in adventure 8. As such, each module should take around 3 sessions, so 18 advances for the whole shebang. If that's the case, I might stick to the normal 4/rank since the characters should certainly reach Legendary.

When I ran it, I didn't use xp either, I just leveled them up when "dramatically appropriate" and kept them at the levels suggested by the module. This was due to the fact that I cut many encounters out. This amounted to about 2.5 levels per module. I would suggest, for SW, two advances per adventure, and use Shaintar's progression. This would give out 24 advances, a few into Legendary.

BTW, where did you get the number 17 for adventures in the OP; There are 12, at least in 4e.


I've read complaints about the difficulty, and suggestions that characters should start at level 2 in D&D, but I suspect it'll be the opposite in Savage Worlds - starting characters are likely to mow down the first few encounters.


I can't speak for difficulty in 3e since I have no experience in it. But it's all a matter of scale, right. But yeah, beginning encounters will amount to a handful of extras with possibly one wild card. In later adventures, that will also be the case, but they'll be toughness in the double digits extras.
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#6 Postby Jonah Hex » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:31 pm

Zadmar wrote:One of the issues I've seen discussed before is how to convert skill checks and saving throws. In D&D 3.x each such roll includes a Difficulty Class (DC), which you have to equal or exceed using d20+modifiers. And when you're converting an adventure, you're going to see a lot of those DC rolls.

Now the ideal approach would be to ignore the DC entirely, read the flavour text for the task you're trying to achieve, and come up with a fast Savage Worlds solution. If you're confident enough with handling it that way then you don't need any conversion rules, you can just wing it.

I would do this wherever SW mechanics are already there.


But if you're still fairly new to Savage Worlds, or the flavour text is a bit vague, and you want some sort of rough easy-to-remember guideline, I would personally recommend the following:

DC 5: You get a +1 bonus to the roll.
DC 10: No modifier.
DC 15: You get a -1 penalty to the roll.
DC 20: You get a -2 penalty to the roll.
DC 25: You get a -3 penalty to the roll.
DC 30: You get a -4 penalty to the roll.

So for example, if the adventure says you need to make a Reflex DC 20 check to avoid a falling object, you might treat that as an Agility roll at -2.


You have to be careful with skill checks. In DnD, modifiers go up quickly and by large margins. In SW, you can have starting characters making that -4 roll without too much difficulty (d12 +2 isn't that hard for a dedicated character), and even a moderately skilled character has almost a 26% chance.

Even so, I would likely change the modifiers to +2, +1, 0, -2, -3, -4 just because that 5DC gives an 80% chance for someone completely untrained and 15DC gives 30%. There supposed to be reasonably easy for anyone to succeed. One important issue is that at high levels, you never see the lower DCs so that's something to be aware of.

However an alternative approach is to change the TN. Some people won't like this, as most rolls in Savage Worlds are made against TN 4, however there is some precedent with Fighting vs Parry and damage vs Toughness. In this case, DC 5 would be TN 3, DC 10 would be TN 4, DC 15 would be TN 5, and so on.

This approach has two main benefits: First, it means the players don't know in advance exactly how well they need to roll, only that they want to get as high as possible (this also means you can fudge the TN if it's important to the story, and the players won't know); second, it's common in D&D adventures to be presented with a table showing different outcomes depending on how well you roll, rather than a simple success and failure, and this is easier to calculate if you change the TN rather than applying a modifier.



You could do it that way. When I run SW, I generally don't give out modifiers anyway so it amounts to the same benefit, but counting up in your method is probably more intuitive.
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#7 Postby Zadmar » Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:01 pm

Jonah Hex wrote:BTW, where did you get the number 17 for adventures in the OP; There are 12, at least in 4e.

There are also 5 "side quest" bonus adventures at the end. I just had a quick look, and apparently they were judged the top 5 entries from a 2008 competition.

Jonah Hex wrote:Even so, I would likely change the modifiers to +2, +1, 0, -2, -3, -4 just because that 5DC gives an 80% chance for someone completely untrained and 15DC gives 30%. There supposed to be reasonably easy for anyone to succeed.

It's very difficult to come up with a precise conversion because of the granularity in Savage Worlds. An unskilled Wild Card has around a 62.5% chance of success with a +2 bonus, but with d4 they'd have around a 95.8% chance of success, at which point it's barely worth asking them to roll - and for something like a Notice check, you can pretty much guarantee that everyone has at least d4.

The following results are based on 10 million rolls:

Code: Select all

     d4-2     d4       d6       d8       d10      d12      d12+1    d12+2
+2   62.52%   95.83%   97.22%   97.91%   98.32%   98.60%   98.61%   98.61%
+1   49.99%   83.33%   88.90%   91.65%   93.31%   94.45%   98.61%   98.61%
+0   32.27%   62.48%   74.97%   81.25%   84.98%   87.50%   94.44%   98.61%
-1   27.06%   49.98%   55.58%   66.69%   73.32%   77.77%   87.50%   94.45%
-2   19.26%   32.29%   30.54%   47.94%   58.34%   65.26%   77.77%   87.49%
-3   16.68%   27.08%   30.52%   37.52%   50.00%   58.33%   65.26%   77.77%
-4   12.63%   19.26%   25.84%   24.63%   39.72%   49.75%   58.30%   65.27%
-5   8.50%    16.67%   20.99%   22.23%   28.88%   40.73%   49.77%   58.33%
-6   4.29%    12.61%   15.95%   18.35%   17.49%   31.25%   40.72%   49.77%
-7   4.29%    8.51%    10.80%   14.39%   15.00%   21.27%   31.24%   40.77%
-8   3.46%    4.29%    5.47%    10.38%   11.50%   10.89%   21.29%   31.24%


D&D 3.5 characters can have up to level+3 in their main skills, and half that in other skills (although there are further modifiers for stats, certain Feats, synergies, etc). But generally speaking I'd usually expect starting characters to have most skills in the range +0 to +5.

Shane Hensley's d20 conversion document suggests the following guideline:

1-3: d4
4-6: d6
7-9: d8
10-13: d10
14-16: d12
17-20: d12+1

So that would put most starting D&D characters at d4 in most skills, d6 in their specialties, and d4-2 in skills they've not trained at all.

A D&D character with +4 has a 100% chance at DC 5, 75% chance at DC 10, 50% chance at DC 15 and 25% chance at DC 20.

A SW character with d6 has an 88.9% chance at +1, 75% chance at +0, 55.6% chance at -1 and 30.54% at -2.

As the middle point, that's not bad. The problem is that d4 is only slightly worse than d6, while d4-2 is miles behind. But I think that comes with the territory when you're running Savage Worlds, where the characters tend to be larger-than-life heroes.

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#8 Postby Jonah Hex » Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:04 pm

Zadmar wrote:It's very difficult to come up with a precise conversion because of the granularity in Savage Worlds. An unskilled Wild Card has around a 62.5% chance of success with a +2 bonus, but with d4 they'd have around a 95.8% chance of success, at which point it's barely worth asking them to roll - and for something like a Notice check, you can pretty much guarantee that everyone has at least d4.

I don't think there are many Notice rolls at DC5, but if there are I'd be willing to hand wave and say "you succeed". I suppose that goes for most skills at DC 5. Same with trained skill rolls at +2 for SW. I usually don't see a need to roll unless there are other modifiers involved.


D&D 3.5 characters can have up to level+3 in their main skills, and half that in other skills (although there are further modifiers for stats, certain Feats, synergies, etc). But generally speaking I'd usually expect starting characters to have most skills in the range +0 to +5.

Shane Hensley's d20 conversion document suggests the following guideline:

1-3: d4
4-6: d6
7-9: d8
10-13: d10
14-16: d12
17-20: d12+1

So that would put most starting D&D characters at d4 in most skills, d6 in their specialties, and d4-2 in skills they've not trained at all.

I think that's the point where you have to chuck out the literal conversion. How often do you see a SW character with all non-combat skills at even d6 and no higher. It happens but it's not uncommon for them to be higher. Especially when you add in edges.


A D&D character with +4 has a 100% chance at DC 5, 75% chance at DC 10, 50% chance at DC 15 and 25% chance at DC 20.

A SW character with d6 has an 88.9% chance at +1, 75% chance at +0, 55.6% chance at -1 and 30.54% at -2.

As the middle point, that's not bad. The problem is that d4 is only slightly worse than d6, while d4-2 is miles behind. But I think that comes with the territory when you're running Savage Worlds, where the characters tend to be larger-than-life heroes.


Yeah, difference isn't worth arguing about. Do whatever works for you. I don't think the +1 will be game-breaking.
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#9 Postby Zadmar » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:00 am

There's a bard-style Edge in the Fantasy Companion, but it doesn't fit with what I want.

My original idea was that Bards could simply take Command with appropriate trappings, and then choose to take Arcane Background (Sorcery) with appropriate trappings, but I realised it would be much easier if they were written up as separate Edges. I also wanted to give Bard some tougher requirements to offset the increased advantages.

Bard
Requirements: Novice, Charismatic, Persuasion d8, Knowledge (Bardic Lore) d6
You are a talented musician and entertainer. You gain the Command Edge, representing your ability to inspire people with your songs - you must sing or play an instrument in order to use Command, but the benefits apply to all allies within range, rather than just subordinates. The same trapping extends to any other Leadership Edges you take. If you take Tactician, replace Knowledge (Battle) with Knowledge (Bardic Lore).
If you wish to take Jack-of-all-Trades, you may ignore the Smarts requirement. If you wish to take Attractive and Very Attractive during play, you can have it represent the attraction of your growing celebrity status.

Arcane Background (Bardic Magic)
Requirements: Novice, Bard
Arcane Skill: Persuasion (Spirit)
Starting Power Points: 10
Starting Powers: 2
You've learned how to channel your music into magic, using Persuasion as your arcane skill (note that Charisma is not added to Persuasion when used for casting spells). You use the Arcane Spell Failure rule when using medium or heavy armour, or large shields (i.e., if the penalty is 1 then you ignore it, but if it's 2 or 3 then it applies in full). Your spells should generally have a sound-based trapping, and unlike sorcerers and wizards you can even learn healing magic (but not Greater Healing).

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#10 Postby Zadmar » Sun Jan 19, 2014 8:18 am

As War of the Burning Sky is a D&D setting, I thought it might be fun to create some archetypes based on classes. Obviously players can customise their character as they see fit, but these can speed up the character creation process, and they fit the setting.

It should be noted that these archetypes use certain house rules. In particular the gear is built with Savage Armoury, and I'm using the Evading skill, as well as some custom Edges. I'll go into more detail on those later, when I've finalised that part of the conversion.

These archetypes don't include race, as I want to keep the two separate.

Barbarian
Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d4, Spirit d6, Strength d8, Vigor d8
Skills: Climbing d4, Evading d6, Fighting d6, Healing d4, Intimidation d6, Notice d4, Riding d4, Survival d4, Swimming d4, Throwing d6, Tracking d4
Charisma: –; Pace: 6; Parry: 5; Toughness: 7 (1)
Hindrances: One Major, Illiterate, and one additional Minor
Edges: Berserker Rage
Gear: Battleaxe, 2 throwing axes, thick furs (+1 armour)

Bard
Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d6, Spirit d8, Strength d6, Vigor d4
Skills: Evading d6, Fighting d6, Knowledge (Bardic Lore) d6, Lockpicking d4, Notice d4, Persuasion d8, Riding d4, Shooting d4, Stealth d4, Streetwise d4
Charisma: +2; Pace: 6; Parry: 7 (2); Toughness: 5 (1)
Hindrances: One Major, two Minor
Edges: Charismatic, Bard
Gear: Rapier, main gauche, dagger, shortbow, light leather vest (+1 armour)

Cleric
Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d6, Spirit d8, Strength d6, Vigor d4
Skills: Evading d6, Faith d8, Fighting d6, Healing d6, Knowledge (Religion) d6, Notice d4, Persuasion d4, Riding d4, Throwing d4
Charisma: –; Pace: 6; Parry: 6 (1); Toughness: 6 (2)
Hindrances: One Major, two Minor
Edges: Arcane Background (Miracles), Holy Warrior
Powers: Healing (cure wounds), Succor
Gear: Warhammer, target shield, sling, light chainmail vest (+2 armour)

Druid
Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d6, Spirit d8, Strength d4, Vigor d6
Skills: Evading d6, Faith d8, Fighting d6, Healing d4, Knowledge (Nature) d6, Notice d4, Riding d4, Survival d4, Swimming d4, Tracking d4
Charisma: –; Pace: 6; Parry: 6 (1); Toughness: 6 (1)
Hindrances: One Major, two Minor
Edges: Arcane Background (Miracles), Beast Master
Powers: Beast Friend, Nature's Ally
Gear: Staff, sling, light leather vest (+1 armour)

Fighter
Attributes: Agility d8, Smarts d4, Spirit d6, Strength d8, Vigor d6
Skills: Evading d8, Climbing d4, Fighting d8, Intimidation d4, Knowledge (Battle) d4, Notice d4, Riding d4, Shooting d8, Throwing d4
Charisma: –; Pace: 6; Parry: 7 (1); Toughness: 8 (3)
Hindrances: One Major, two Minor
Edges: Brawny
Gear: Longsword, target shield, dagger, shortbow, breastplate (+3 armour)

Monk
Attributes: Agility d8, Smarts d4, Spirit d6, Strength d6, Vigor d6
Skills: Climbing d4, Evading d8, Faith d8, Fighting d8, Healing d4, Knowledge (Religion) d4, Notice d4, Stealth d4
Charisma: –; Pace: 6; Parry: 5; Toughness: 5
Hindrances: One Major, two Minor
Edges: Arcane Background (Miracles), Natural Weapons (martial arts: Str+d4)
Powers: Smite (psychic infusion), Deflection
Gear: Robes
Note: You qualify for the Adept Edge, and can take it with your next advance.

Paladin
Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d4, Spirit d8, Strength d6, Vigor d8
Skills: Evading d6, Faith d8, Fighting d8, Intimidation d6, Knowledge (Religion) d4, Notice d4, Persuasion d4, Riding d4
Charisma: –; Pace: 6; Parry: 6 (1); Toughness: 8 (2)
Hindrances: One Major, two Minor
Edges: Arcane Background (Miracles)
Powers: Healing (lay on hands), Smite
Gear: Longsword, target shield, dagger, light chainmail vest (+2 armour)
Note: You qualify for the Champion Edge, and can take it with your next advance.

Psion
Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d8, Spirit d6, Strength d6, Vigor d4
Skills: Evading d6, Fighting d6, Notice d4, Persuasion d4, Psionics d8, Riding d4, Streetwise d4, Taunt d8, Throwing d4
Charisma: –; Pace: 6; Parry: 6 (1); Toughness: 5 (1)
Hindrances: One Major, two Minor
Edges: Arcane Background (Psionics), Mentalist
Gear: Spear, light leather vest (+1 armour)
Powers: Burst (psychic scream), Deflection (forcefield), Mind Reading (telepathy)
Note: If you wish to play a soulblade, swap Mentalist for Mind Blade.

Ranger
Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d8, Spirit d6, Strength d6, Vigor d6
Skills: Evading d6, Fighting d6, Healing d4, Notice d4, Shooting d6, Stealth d4, Survival d8, Tracking d8
Charisma: –; Pace: 6; Parry: 6 (1); Toughness: 7 (2)
Hindrances: One Major, two Minor
Edges: Woodsman
Gear: Shortsword, main gauche, dagger, longbow, light chainmail vest (+1 armour)

Rogue
Attributes: Agility d8, Smarts d6, Spirit d6, Strength d6, Vigor d6
Skills: Evading d8, Climbing d6, Fighting d6, Lockpicking d6, Notice d4, Repair d4, Stealth d8, Streetwise d4
Charisma: –; Pace: 6; Parry: 7 (1); Toughness: 6 (1)
Hindrances: One Major, two Minor
Edges: Thief
Gear: Shortsword, main gauche, dagger, light leather vest (+1 armour)
Note: You qualify for the Sneak Attack Edge, and can take it with your next advance.

Sorcerer
Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d6, Spirit d8, Strength d6, Vigor d4
Skills: Evading d6, Fighting d6, Intimidation d8, Notice d4, Persuasion d8, Sorcery d8, Streetwise d4
Charisma: –; Pace: 6; Parry: 6 (1); Toughness: 4
Hindrances: One Major, two Minor
Edges: Arcane Background (Sorcery), Summon Familiar
Gear: Spear, dagger
Powers: Burst (jet of flame), Deflection (entropic aura), Light/Obscure (illusion)

Wizard
Attributes: Agility d6, Smarts d10, Spirit d6, Strength d4, Vigor d4
Skills: Evading d6, Fighting d4, Investigation d6, Knowledge (Arcana) d8, Notice d6, Persuasion d4, Wizardry d10
Charisma: –; Pace: 6; Parry: 6 (1); Toughness: 4
Hindrances: One Major, two Minor
Edges: Arcane Background (Wizardry), Wizard
Gear: Staff, dagger
Powers: Armor (mage armour), Bolt (magic missile), Burst (burning hands), Deflection (shield), Fly (feather fall), Light/Obscure (dancing lights)
Last edited by Zadmar on Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:50 am, edited 4 times in total.

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#11 Postby amerigoV » Sun Jan 19, 2014 9:52 am

For the Paladin, you might swap Deflection with Healing (Lay on Hands) as the archetype.
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#12 Postby Zadmar » Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:15 am

amerigoV wrote:For the Paladin, you might swap Deflection with Healing (Lay on Hands) as the archetype.

Thanks for the suggestion, have done so - I think I was just trying to give the paladin different powers to the cleric. However I've changed the cleric's Smite to Succor. I also noticed a few copy/paste errors which I've fixed, I've revised the paladin so that it doesn't start with Champion, and I've gone and assigned all of the skill points for each archetype.

Originally I wanted to leave a few skill points unspent, thinking it would encourage players to personalise the archetype a bit. However in practice (i.e., last session) the players who knew what they wanted had no problem dropping or rearranging existing skills, while the player who didn't know what she wanted spent ages trying to choose which extra skills to add. So I think it's better to fill out all the skills, and then people can just drop what they don't want.

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#13 Postby Zadmar » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:27 am

I decided to create my own set of races, because once again the adventures tend to assume that certain races have certain abilities.

Human
• Adaptable (+2): Humans tend to be far more adaptable than other races. They begin with one free Edge of their choice.
• Diverse (+0): Humans come from a widely diverse range of cultures. They have the option of choosing one additional Minor Hindrance in return for a free d6 in one skill of their choice. Both the Hindrance and skill should be related to their cultural background.

Dwarf
• Sturdy (+2): Dwarves are very tough. They automatically increase their Vigor by +1 die step during character creation, and can raise their Vigor to d12+1 through normal advances. The Professional and Expert Edges allow them to increase their Vigor to d12+2 and d12+3 respectively.
• Darkvision (+1): Dwarves can see in the dark up to a distance of 12".
• Stonecunning (+½): Dwarves have an intuitive feel for stone. They gain a +1 bonus to Notice rolls related to stonework, including traps, secret doors, unsafe surfaces, etc.
• Short (-1): Dwarves are short and stocky, and have a base Pace of 5.
• Gruff (-½): Dwarves tend to be gruff and short-tempered. They suffer a -1 penalty to Charisma.

Elf
• Low Light Vision (+1): Elves have superb night vision, and ignore penalties for Dim and Dark lighting.
• Keen Senses (+1): Elves have much sharper senses than humans. They receive a +1 bonus to all Notice rolls.
• Graceful (+*): Elves tend to be agile and graceful. They can increase their Agility to d12+1 with normal advances, and to d12+2 and d12+3 with the Professional and Expert Edges respectively.
• Slender (-*): Elves tend to be slender of build, and cannot increase their Vigor beyond d10 with normal advances. If they have Vigor d10, they may take the Professional and Expert Edges at Legendary to raise their Vigor to d12 and d12+1 respectively.

Gnome
• Innate Magic (+3): Gnomes have a natural affinity with illusions, and are able to conjure glowing balls of light, or produce strange ghostly sounds. These are treated exactly like the Light/Obscure (dancing lights) spell and the Light/Obscure (Illusion) spell respectively, except that the latter produces sounds instead of images, and is always limited to a SBT. The gnome uses his Spirit die as the arcane skill, and suffers a level of Fatigue if he rolls 1 on the trait die.
• Low Light Vision (+1): Gnomes have excellent night vision, and ignore penalties for Dim and Dark lighting.
• Speak to Mammals (+½): Gnomes are able to understand and communicate with burrowing mammals, such as badgers and foxes. This is treated as Knowledge (Burrowing Language), which starts at d4 and can be raised normally. The animals won't be any more friendly or cooperative than normal, although the gnome may use the lowest of Persuasion and Knowledge (Burrowing Language) to try and befriend or negotiate with them, using the normal rules for Persuasion.
• Keen Hearing (+½): Gnomes have exceptional hearing, and gain a +1 bonus to listening-based Notice rolls.
• Robust (+*): Gnomes tend to be pretty tough for their size. They can increase their Vigor to d12+1 with normal advances, and to d12+2 and d12+3 with the Professional and Expert Edges respectively.
• Weak (-*): Gnomes are weaker than most races, and cannot increase their Strength beyond d10 with normal advances. If they have Strength d10, they may take the Professional and Expert Edges at Legendary to raise their Strength to d12 and d12+1 respectively.
• Little (-3): Gnomes stand 3 to 3½ feet tall. This reduces their Size (and therefore also their Toughness) by 1, and gives them a base Pace of 5.

Half-Elf
• Low Light Vision (+1): Half-Elves have good night vision, and ignore penalties for Dim and Dark lighting.
• Likeable (+1): Half-Elves tend to get along well with most people. They gain a +1 bonus to Charisma.
• Elf Blood (+0): Half-Elves are treated as both humans and elves for the purposes of Edges and magical affects.

Half-Orc
• Strong (+2*): Half-Orcs tend to be heavily muscled. They automatically increase their Strength by +1 die step during character creation, and can raise their Strength to d12+1 through normal advances. The Professional and Expert Edges allow them to increase their Strength to d12+2 and d12+3 respectively.
• Darkvision (+1): Half-Orcs can see in the dark up to a distance of 12".
• Persecuted (-1): Half-Orcs receive a rough time from other races. They suffer a -2 penalty to Charisma.
• Slow-Witted (-*): Half-Orcs aren't particularly clever, and cannot increase their Smarts beyond d10 with normal advances. If they have Smarts d10, they may take the Professional and Expert Edges at Legendary to raise their Smarts to d12 and d12+1 respectively.
• Orc Blood (+0): Half-Orcs are treated as both humans and orcs for the purposes of Edges and magical affects.

Halfling
• Serendipitous (+2): Halflings begin each session with an extra benny.
• Courageous (+1): Halfings receive a +1 bonus to Fear tests.
• Sneaky (+1½): Halflings begin with Stealth d6 and Climbing d4.
• Keen Hearing (+½): Halflings have exceptional hearing, and gain a +1 bonus to listening-based Notice rolls.
• Nimble (+*): Halflings tend to be quick and nimble. They can increase their Agility to d12+1 with normal advances, and to d12+2 and d12+3 with the Professional and Expert Edges respectively.
• Weak (-*): Halflings are weaker than most races, and cannot increase their Strength beyond d10 with normal advances. If they have Strength d10, they may take the Professional and Expert Edges at Legendary to raise their Strength to d12 and d12+1 respectively.
• Little (-3): Halflings stand about 3 feet tall. This reduces their Size (and therefore also their Toughness) by 1, and gives them a base Pace of 5.
Last edited by Zadmar on Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

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#14 Postby Zadmar » Tue Jan 21, 2014 8:36 am

I also wanted to make some design comments about the races.

Most D&D races get +2 to one stat and -2 to another. In Savage Worlds, the +2 tends to be treated as a starting attribute of d6, but how do you represent the -2? I first considered having a racial ability with a soft cap for raising an attribute above d8, but it didn't feel symmetrical - the bonus and penalty worked differently, and I really wanted them to work the same way.

Then I toyed with using Ubiquity dice (or simply d4-1) to simulate an attribute of d2 - but I realised that if elves started with d6 in Agility and d2 in Vigor, most of them would just put 1 extra point into Vigor and 1 fewer into Agility, leaving them with a character who had d6 across the board. I'd be modifying the rules to handle attributes below d4, but they'd probably never be used.

Then I took another look at Shane Hensley's d20 to Savage Worlds attribute conversion guidelines, which suggest:

3-6 (D&D) = d4 (SW)
7-11 (D&D) = d6 (SW)
12-14 (D&D) = d8 (SW)
15-16 (D&D) = d10 (SW)
17-18 (D&D) = d12 (SW)
19-20 (D&D) = d12+1 (SW)

As I mentioned before, most D&D races have +2 to one attribute and -2 to another (to a minimum of 3). That means (for example) that a starting elf can have Constitution in the range 3-16 and Dexterity in the range 5-20. An elf converted using Shane's guidelines would have Vigor between d4 and d10, and Agility between d4 and d12+1. And that is very easy to handle, you're just raising the maximum of one attribute and reducing the maximum of another attribute.

There were two exceptions though. As well as a Constitution bonus, dwarves also gain a bonus to resist poison, so I decided that an actual boost to Vigor was appropriate. The other exception was half-orcs, I couldn't think of any other appropriate abilities to balance them, but I figured that weak half-orcs probably wouldn't survive childhood - they start with Strength d6. I also allow both races to increase their appropriate attribute to d12+1 using advances, to keep them consistent with the other races.

This technically means that dwarves have a tiny advantage (+1 maximum Vigor but no cap on any other attributes). However raising Vigor from d12 to d12+1 doesn't increase Toughness, nor does raising Vigor from d12+2 to the dwarven maximum of d12+3. So to be honest, it's not much of a benefit to be allowed to spend an advance in such a way.

A few other points to note:

• Gnomes are difficult to balance, particularly their innate magical abilities, which make up an important part of their fluff. In the end I decided to using the Knowledge (Language) rules from SWD (with an elaboration for Persuasion) to handle "Speak to Mammals", and modelled Innate Magic loosely on the AoO Innate Power Edge combined with the Savage Spellbook approach of an extra trapping being worth half an Edge.

• A starting skill of d6 is a +1 racial ability, which is the equivalent of 2-3 skill points (during character creation) or 1½-2 advances (during the game), depending on your attributes. A starting skill of d4 would be the equivalent of 1 skill point (during character creation) or 1 advance (during the game), so I've valued it as a +½ racial ability.

• Humans normally just get a free Edge, but I felt that made them look a bit bland compared to the other races, so I added "Diverse" as well. GMs could expand Diverse by writing up a short list of appropriate Hindrances and skills for different cultures.

• +2 Notice is the same as Awareness, making it a +2 racial ability. +2 Notice to one specific sense is listed as a +1 racial ability. From those I've extrapolated Keen Senses (+1 Notice) as a +1 racial ability, Keen Hearing (+1 Notice for hearing only) as a +½ racial ability, and Stonecunning (+1 Notice related to stone) as a +½ racial ability. I prefer +1 bonuses to Notice, because +2 means the character only fails most checks on snake eyes.

Darkvision: This is the ability to see in darkness without any light source. Darkvision is black and white only, and unlike Infravision and Low Light Vision it has a limited range (usually 12" on the tabletop, which is about 24 real-world yards). It doesn't allow you to see things you normally couldn't (e.g., you can't sense body heat like Infravision), and you suffer full visibility penalties for things beyond the range of the Darkvision (e.g., ranged attackers).

• Rather than writing that dwarves begin with Vigor d6 and half-orcs with Strength d6, I've phrased it that they increase their attribute by +1 die step during character creation. This is functionally the same, but it means I don't need to clarify how to combine race and archetype - the race bonus simply adds on to the archetype.

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#15 Postby Zadmar » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:30 am

Knowledges

In Savage Worlds, the available Knowledge skills are tailored to each individual setting. Only subjects that are important to the setting should have their own Knowledge skill, everything else comes under Common Knowledge. The D&D Craft and Profession skills would also be treated as Knowledges in Savage Worlds, although the latter would usually fall under Common Knowledge.

I recommend using the following Knowledge skills in the Savage Worlds conversion (in addition to any Knowledges required for Edges):

Knowledge (Arcana): This already exists in Savage Worlds, and works much the same way.
Knowledge (Architecture): Use whenever WotBS requires a Knowledge (architecture and engineering) check.
Knowledge (History): Use whenever WotBS requires a Knowledge (history) check.
Knowledge (Nature): Use whenever WotBS requires a Knowledge (nature) check.
Knowledge (Nobility): Use whenever WotBS requires a Knowledge (nobility & royalty) check.
Knowledge (Religion): Use whenever WotBS requires a Knowledge (religion) check.
Knowledge (Planes): Use whenever WotBS requires a Knowledge (the planes) check.
Knowledge (Bardic Lore): Use in place of Bardic Knowledge, also a requirement for the Bard Edge.
Knowledge (Alchemy): Use in place of Craft (alchemy) for making alchemical items.

WotBS also references Knowledge (local) and Knowledge (geography), but I recommend using Common Knowledge for those - as well as for Knowledge (dungeoneering), which isn't referenced directly.

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#16 Postby Zadmar » Fri Jan 24, 2014 4:59 am

Bestiary

The most labour-intensive part of the conversion will be the bestiary. Fortunately my conversion tool was able to handle the lion's share of the work, with only some minor changes for recognising yet another input format. However I did also have to adjust each statblock by hand, because of the way much of the data (particularly skills and feats) was displayed over multiple lines, and to include things like Wild Card status and natural armour names.

Combined with various other enhancements I've made to the tool itself (such as handling classes, more spells, new Edges, etc), it's taken me a good two days work to reach this point.

What I have so far: Savage War of the Burning Sky Bestiary

It still needs fine-tuning, some of the monsters will need tweaking and expanding, buffing or nerfing, but as you can see it's coming together quite nicely.
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#17 Postby Zadmar » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:18 am

The Executive Producer of War of the Burning Sky said he's "totally fine" with me turning this conversion into a PDF, although I promised I'd run the PDF past him first before releasing it to the public.

I will most likely split the content into multiple PDFs, but I'm still trying to decide how best to handle it.

The setting rules, new Edges, races, archetypes and general conversion guidelines may end up being rolled together into a generic fantasy PDF that can be used as the basis for any D&D conversion.

The conversion of the War of the Burning Sky Player's Guide will likely be its own standalone PDF, so that it can be downloaded by players without containing any GM information. I might include the generic stuff in this version as well, to reduce the number of PDFs people need to download.

The GM-specific stuff will probably go into its own PDF, although I might break the bestiary off into a separate PDF. It depends how big it gets.

The conversion also references Savage Armoury and Savage Spellbook, but it doesn't use any of the companions. Someone wishing to run this conversion only needs to buy SWD for $10, and WotBS for another $10. Everything else they need is available for free.

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#18 Postby Zadmar » Fri Jan 24, 2014 6:46 am

Something that really hasn't converted very well is the units of 20 troops - War of the Burning Sky treats each such unit as a single monster. In theory they could be treated like SW swarms, but I think this is one of the situations where a direct conversion isn't going be appropriate.

Savage Worlds is exceptionally good at handling big battles with lots of individuals (in fact it handles such battles far better than combat against a single opponent - individual monsters tend to die very quickly).

However characters in Savage Worlds don't scale in power in the same way as D&D. You'd normally have perhaps 2-4 enemy Extras per PC, perhaps with a Wild Card boss; a unit of 20 soldiers would usually be a decent challenge for a party of 5 or 6 PCs.

In some cases this is fairly easy to convert - for example when facing multiple waves of palace guards, instead of each waving consisting of a single unit representing 20 guards, each wave might consist of 1-2 guards per PC. Players should be able to chop through each wave fairly fast, although with Savage Worlds there's always the risk of death, even from relatively weak foes, so it won't be necessary to convert the "filler" encounters used in D&D to wear down PC resources.

But for the big battles it's going to be problematic. I can see two ways of handling it. The first would be to focus the attention on one part of the battlefield, as a series of smaller battles. The number of opponents could also be buffed by providing the players with allied NPCs under their control, however I wouldn't personally recommend dealing with more than about a hundred individual troops, otherwise things start to slow down.

The second approach would be to use the mass battle rules. These are very fast, but also quite abstract. What I may personally do is use a mixture of both approaches, using the mass battle rules to get things started, then turn the end of it into a big combat scene with dozens of individual troops.

Note that the "Archery Volleys" described in WotBS should probably use the rules for Suppressive Fire - 20 individual archers focusing on a single PC will usually result in a dead PC, no matter how powerful they are.

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#19 Postby Zadmar » Fri Jan 24, 2014 11:15 am

There's an additional race in WotBS called "Seela" - winged fae from the Fire Forest of Innenotdar. They're pretty difficult to convert, I had to leave out their spell-like abilities in the end.

Seela
• Low Light Vision (+1): Seela have exceptional night vision, and ignore penalties for Dim and Dark lighting.
• Fae Charm (+1): Although they've lost much of their physical beauty, Seela still possess the haunting charm of the fae. They gain a +1 bonus to Charisma, and may ignore the Charismatic requirement if they wish to take the Bard Edge.
• Gliding (+1): Seela can glide at their normal Pace, although they cannot gain altitude, and always lose at least 1" of height at the end of each round.
• Keen Hearing (+½): Seela have exceptional hearing, and gain a +1 bonus to listening-based Notice rolls.
• Stand the Heat (+½): Seela are not harmed by the fires of their home forest. This ability doesn't provide any protection against other sources of heat or fire.
• Fallow Touch (+0): The bare flesh of a Seela saps life. Any living creature who spends a full round in contact with a Seela must make a Vigor roll or become Shaken (if the creature is already Shaken, and fails with a 1 on the Vigor die, then they suffer a wound). This ability requires direct flesh-to-flesh contact, and other Seela are not affected.
• Spiritual (+*): Seela are spiritually strong. They can increase their Spirit to d12+1 with normal advances, and to d12+2 and d12+3 with the Professional and Expert Edges respectively.
• Fragile (-2*): Seela are physically fragile from their years of torment. They suffer a -1 penalty to Toughness, and cannot increase their Vigor beyond d10 with normal advances. If they have Vigor d10, they may take the Professional and Expert Edges at Legendary to raise their Vigor to d12 and d12+1 respectively.

The original version have "bard" as a favoured class, and gain an innate "Bardic Music" bonus, as well as "ghost sound" and "message" spell-like abilities. I decided to link that indirectly into the Fae Charm ability, allowing them to skip the Charismatic requirement for the Bard Edge so that it's a more appealing choice.

I've rated Gliding as a +1 racial ability. Proper flight is a +2 ability, so I think +1 isn't unreasonable for a version that doesn't let you get off the ground. If anything it might be a bit weak, but when viewed in the context of the entire racial package I think it's okay.

Fallow Touch is likely to be as much a hindrance as a help, so I've rated it as +0.

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woot!

#20 Postby Rolunde » Fri Jan 24, 2014 5:17 pm

Heya Zadmar, I already tagged in on the post over at EN World, but since I am on (well lurk on, heh) both forums I wanted to hit this one up too and say Thanks for all this work and it's turned out to be pretty inspiring stuff for me.

I'm currently running a d20-based-homebrew campaign for my group and the changes to the system seem to working well enough for them and although for it's "not too bad" as far as a d20 game goes (2d10 actually in this case) I've really been considering making a change of system to it some time soon.

I've been intending to Savage my group by way of NE and/or Hellfrost (own the stuffs for both) but for now the current campaign setting has been enjoying some nice role play and both character and setting development.

All the work you've done here looks like it should make for a very strong and lovely bridge between both systems that the players already very knowledgeable of d20 tropes should be able to relate easily to, while looking to be a Fully Savage System! :twisted:

I've also gotten my hands on an apparently fantastic mini-campaign adventure setting from the 3.5 era called The Red Hand of Doom, which this should also cover pretty well.

heh, my group is funny because they Do Not like 3/.5/PF but were good sports about trying the homebrew which really has turned out to be more or less "3.5 lite". But where they've been having enough fun with it, I've just been finding that as the GM it's just not really doing it for me. =p

So things were looking to be rather awkward whenever I would be getting around to running "Red Hand" (being written as d20 but the group not really wanting to play said).

Being both inspired and appreciative enough of the work and info here, I am getting a print copy of WotBS (gaming budget this month just about covering hard copies of WotBS and pre-orders of the new LE,HBs of the SFC and SPC, heh) and in the end this info should see use for both that and Red Hand, and effectively doubling what I can run Savagely for my group, woo hoo!


Cheers, ~R~


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